Farewell, Wildcat.

I guess one thing that is good is at least they didn't remove Iron Dragon. :)

I go to work for 8 hours and 5 more pages are made. Catching up....

Ffej said:
I believe this is the 5th year of All Wheels Extreme; shows are replaced to keep live entertainment fresh.

And do you go to CP on Saturday by chance? I've seen All Wheels twice, and both times there was at most 20% utilization of the capacity.

While the name stays the same, the show changes every summer so it is kept fresh. Also, I have seen the show on a Saturday and I have also seen it on a weekday when the crowd looked like this! Seeing a small crowd twice of the course of 400+ shows only means that the live shows have slow times, just like the rides. I assure you though that the numbers are pretty good for Live E.

So back to the topic, why can't the removal of Wildcat be as easy as:

1) Ride was going to be removed soon.
2) Plans were made to expand the Plaza after the removal of WC anyway
3) VP of Maint is tired of putting money into the ride
4) State of Ohio found problems that required more money to open it

All those things were brought to the decision people and they made the decision to just remove it now and save the money they would have put into the ride all summer. You know, it could honestly have been that easy. Remember this is not Kinzel making the decisions. That man could not get rid of anything, ever seen the crap around Disaster Transport?

I don't buy the argument that this was poorly planned either. They could very well have been fine with the space that they have, but if the above actually happened, then why not take advantage of extra space now?

I also love how most of those complaining about this are the same ones who just last week were excited about the new plaza and 'Luminosity'. Now this week they are outraged that one of the smallest coasters at the park is being removed because it is taking up prime real estate on the new midway. Makes me wonder if any of you actually were excited about 'Luminosity' to begin with.

CoasterDemon said:
Kinda like a 420 (!?) foot high phallic McDonald's themed ride?

Are you implying that Dragster is a roadside carnival attraction....because I think it'd be hard to move it from town to town. ;)

Though getting some fries after launching 120mph sounds like a good idea actually. Perhaps McDonalds should sponsor it. :)

.......I have nothing on the phallic thing........there's no getting around that. Though maybe the height came about after a "groovy" discussion between executives. ;)

Everyone here should listen to the Pat Dailey song titled "How Big Is It ".

It makes more sense to me if PR just said "Due to us finding a structural problem on Wildcat this week, we have decided that it will be for the best to remove the ride. The space will be used to better your experience during our new night time show, Luminosity."

Even if there wasn't structual problems, it sounds a lot better than saying they poorly planned the night time show's area and needed more space.

Are you serious?

It sounds good to you for a company (even if it is the truth) to broadcast that one of their coasters had structural damage so severe that it had to be scrapped? I would say it was handled much better this way. The logical people that aren't getting emotionally reactive towards a roller coaster get it; that an old coaster, whose time was already coming to an end after this season, is now gone because something obviously happened during testing or inspection that said..."uh...this is going to cost you X amount of money". Frankly, Wildcat is not worth it..at least from a cost/benefit perspective.

Sometimes you just have to take Ol' Yeller out back and put him out of his misery. Some of you want him freeze-dried and stuffed, but I'm all for a simple burial (and/or dismantling and recycle-bin memorial).

They said more than just "we need more space for new show".

I was kind of hoping that it would go to Dorney! Would set up perfectly there with Possessed, Demon Drop and Stinger!

Dorney recently removed their own antique Schwarzkopf, I doubt they would want Wildcat.

I do hope they eventually build a smaller coaster with individual cars to replace Wildcat, a spinning coaster would be great.

Does anyone remember this happening last June?

I remember that well actually. I'm thinking that's what happened with testing, but that's just an assumption so don't take me as in I know what happened to Wildcat's closure.

Yes Jeff, I'm thoroughly aware of that day...

That was the day the I felt betrayed by my ride. I would like to mention that my crew handled it pretty perfectly. Furthermore, even though we suffered days of downtime because of it, we still had an amazing numbers year. Furthermore the guests who were on the ride at the time returned to the park later that day to ride some more rides.

I would also like to remind people that Magnum had an incident a few years ago too.

You're not seriously comparing Magnum and Wildcat, are you?

tcgolfer said:
That was the day the I felt betrayed by my ride.

This says volumes about the nature of your posts.

Was going to submit this to news but couldn't find a link or anything to submit, and didn't want to just start a thread.

But Sandusky Register just posted pictures of Wildcat and Celebration Plaza. The last 10 pictures really show how the control booth really blocks the station.

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/CPWildcatCelebrationPlaza

I'm new here, but have been reading the posts for some time now. Jeff, why do you get to decide when people are being "too dramatic" or feel entitled to mock people who otherwise express themselves, like above?

Aren't we all just people with a passion for this place? Why all the judging?

TheNewGuy said:
I'm new here, but have been reading the posts for some time now. Jeff, why do you get to decide when people are being "too dramatic" or feel entitled to mock people who otherwise express themselves, like above?

Aren't we all just people with a passion for this place? Why all the judging?

Not the wisest first post but whatever.

I agree with Jeff. That statement that "my ride betrayed me" is so dumb. Its ride. Metal, electrical components, wheels, etc. Its a ride. We are all passionate about CP. But you have to draw a line between passion and downright silly. Saying you felt betrayed by a mechanical ride is like saying you were betrayed by your lawn mower cause it ran outta gas. Or you cars engine blows cause its been through so many miles.

After seeing those pictures in the Register, all I can say is the ride had to go. It just looks so out of place, removing the ride will make Celebration Plaza look great.

Do you suppose there are lifeguards who are crying because the Speed Slides were torn out? I'm guessing no since it was time those slides were retired.

Going by the pictures, I would say the ride is being removed early because of "looks". It makes the area look like crap with the booth thrown right up against the station. Hopefully they move the booth back farther to get it off the midway because it really is just another eyesore like the screen was.

My vote is for a last minute decision, instead of mechanical failure or structural damage based off the pictures.

Ffej said:
...poorly planned.

You keep hammering this point, and while I tend to agree (at least regarding the perception), there's also a way to look at it that suggests effective, rapid decision making. It takes a fair amount of cojones to yank an attraction mere days prior to opening day, knowing full well that there will be some backlash. Barring any failure or similar issue with WC, the easy decision would have been to operate the ride, knowing its existence hinders Luminosity.

True, the decision should have been made during planning. But in the end, the proper decision was made knowing full well it would be a very unpopular one.

Bill02 said:
It's a RIDE for crying out loud! Some of you are delusional that a CARNIVAL RIDE is important in life! I would suggest stepping back from arguing on the internet with your tinfoil hats on and find something that honestly matters in life! It's waaaaaaaay to short to worry about 1 carnival ride being shipped off to a metal shredder for scrap value.

Bill, you clearly don't get why rides are important or emotional at all. I've been going to Cedar Point for almost 25 years. Do you think I still come to this park every year just to ride a bunch of meaningless rides that I've ridden countless times before?

I've discussed this in detail with several forum members that do understand, and I even created a whole thread with plenty of agreeable replies awhile back.

These rides are like portals into the past or keys to unlock vivid memories for me. Just thinking about the memories I have is not the same as riding the rides in person.

The ride experience last year on Wild Cat was the exact same one I had with my grandparents when they were still living 20 years ago. So when I was riding it last year, my mind seamlessly transitioned to that happy time with them so long ago. Then mid-course, my mind transitioned to being with my family as a child...that simple, purely joyful time in my life.

This is one of the primary reasons why I go to Cedar Point every year and ride the same rides over and over. I'm unlocking happy memories that make me feel good, and I'm creating new ones.

When a key is taken away (when Wild Cat was removed), it can be a very emotional experience, because I'm not able to re-create those memories so easily anymore. I have to completely rely on what's left in my head, and those memories just don't have as deep of a connection as being in the exact same car, on that exact same ride as I had been 20 years before.

This is a reason why people get attached to all kinds of material objects in life. Have you ever heard of a father and son who work on a car together their whole lives...the father passes away, and the son gets that car. By what you said of Wild Cat, that son should just sell that scrappy piece of junk; there are much newer cars out there that would be technologically superior. But in reality, that car is like a living memorial of the son's father, and nothing could make the son sell it.

djdaemon +1...I am bummed a little about the decision, but it is a testament to the new management style. Prior management would have left WC there and a new, $6 million family oriented show probably would have suffered. Sometimes the hardest decisions aren't popular but they are necessary.

Jeff said:

tcgolfer said:
That was the day the I felt betrayed by my ride.

This says volumes about the nature of your posts.

You can say whatever you want, but working in rides you go from being scared something is going to happen every day to not simply because you build a trust in your ride and the safety systems involved. When you run the ride for countless hours wile thousands of people enjoy taking a turn on it, then something happens, of course you're going to feel a little bit of trust broken.

Getting back on the ride a couple days later, I'm not going to lie, I was gun shy a little bit when I went to push the button to dispatch. I'm not trying to hide the fact that I'm emotionally upset about the ride being torn down. But when something was so intrinsically good to me gets taken away from me of course I'm going to be upset. You would be too.

tcgolfer: That's totally understandable - I completely get how you'd feel.

Also, everyone here should know what a truly hard-working, positive, and caring ride operator tcgolfer was on Wild Cat. I had a really great experience on Wild Cat last year that I meant to write Cedar Point about. After drawing some parallels yesterday, I discovered the person I was so proud of was in fact tcgolfer! It was so neat to be connected through a forum and be able to thank him for the experience. :)

There's a pretty wide chasm between having an emotional response and being overtly melodramatic.

tcgolfer said:
...this has done nothing but take another solid (family ride) away. WildCat was a great family ride that pretty much everyone could ride together...

C'mon now. WC wasn't a family ride (48" height requirement), and certainly wasn't the type of family ride that many have been pushing for.

I'm not trying to be overtly melodramatic, I'm just trying to express how it felt that day and how I feel about this whole situation.

I bet if you were to ask ride operators that were working a ride when an incident occurred if they lost some trust in their ride, then they would say yes.

tcgolfer said:

Jeff said:

tcgolfer said:
That was the day the I felt betrayed by my ride.

This says volumes about the nature of your posts.

You can say whatever you want, but working in rides you go from being scared something is going to happen every day to not simply because you build a trust in your ride and the safety systems involved. When you run the ride for countless hours wile thousands of people enjoy taking a turn on it, then something happens, of course you're going to feel a little bit of trust broken.

Getting back on the ride a couple days later, I'm not going to lie, I was gun shy a little bit when I went to push the button to dispatch. I'm not trying to hide the fact that I'm emotionally upset about the ride being torn down. But when something was so intrinsically good to me gets taken away from me of course I'm going to be upset. You would be too.

I work with animals. If you were talking about this for an animal, I would agree with you. Cause I build a relationship with them and try and create a trust. Killer Whale trainers are a great example. A Killer Whale could not listen to you. Or it could by all means tear you to shreds.

Now Wildcat could do that do in many ways. But the difference is an animal is living, breathing thing. Wildcat is a machine. Machines don't feel and machines don't think. They do what they are programmed to do. And when they don't, they just break down and have to be fixed. It's fine that it was good to you and it looks like your attached to it and had good times with it. I was attached to my first car. Had a lot of great memories with it. When my engine blew out, I didn't feel betrayed by my car. I was sad sure. But I knew my cars day had come. I cherished all the memories I had with my car and I still do. But I knew I had to let it go. I love the rides at Cedar Point. But I don't get emotionally attached to them. There are more important things in the world be emotionally attached to.

TheNewGuy said:
Jeff, why do you get to decide when people are being "too dramatic"

Where was his post marked as the official decision? Seems like he made a comment about a previous post just like many others have in this thread.

The Register photos tend to reinforce what I expressed yesterday: I think it's a little overly dramatic to say it was "poorly planned". But I would say that there was perhaps a lack of vision: there's really no way to see *exactly* what the ride was going to look like once the control booth was positioned *inches* from the facade. Once the booth was in position (is it even possible to open the booth door without banging it into the ride?) I suspect that's when the conversation started. And it ended just before 11:00 on Wednesday.

I still think they should have just taken down the station roof... 8-)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

WickedTwister 90 you said it perfect. They are acting like their childhoods have just been ruined by the decision to remove Wildcat. If you had great times on it, great! That has not changed, even with the ride gone. I loved White Water Landing because my whole family could be in the same log, and that was really fun. So while I miss it, I still remember how fun it was when all four of us were in that same log and that ride being removed hasn't taken those memories away from me.

You know that if they decided to remove a pretzel stand there would be someone out there saying that their grandparents used to buy them pretzels there so how dare CP remove it!

Just another opinion about what happened:

Perhaps the fire dept, and or the state inspectors said the control tower for luminosity was too close to Wildcat creating a fire hazard/safety issue if an emergency/fire occured on the ride.

I know as a teacher, the fire dept only allows us to cover 20% of our walls with paper/student work, etc. I could def. see them saying that the tower was way too close to the ride.

Alright, I really didn't want to get to this point but I feel like no one is even taking the time to consider where I'm coming from.

If you've never worked a ride before then you really just don't understand. There aren't many of you who understand what it's like day in and day out operating these things. Maybe I should stop expecting you to either. I'm not upset about the rides removal, just how it was done. I knew at best we had a year or two left of it gracing the midway where it was, but for them to just rip it out is not cool for me. If you're ok with it that's fine, but it doesn't mean that I have to be.

tcgolfer said:
...no one is even taking the time to consider where I'm coming from.

Not true. Some have actually agreed with your perspective. You seem to be focusing on those who don't agree with you.

Another problem, I think, is that you insist:

If you've never worked a ride before then you really just don't understand.

That's simply not true. I'd bet most, if not all, have experienced some form of similar loss. Changing careers, finishing college, selling a car, moving, and so on are all similar events that can have an understandable emotional impact. Just because people don't agree with your reaction doesn't mean they don't understand.

I can't speak for others, but where you lose me is when you allow your passion to delude your perception. Suggesting the park owes WC fans a better fate than this, implying the ride "betrayed" you, or that you know more about what the best decision is for the park regarding WC's fate. Your feelings aren't necessarily invalid, but you have to admit your reaction is colored by your passion. And because few share that passion, few will relate.

Instead of complaining that others (myself included) don't share your impassioned perspective, find those who agree with your point of view, and share your thoughts, memories or whatever else with them.

Long time listener, first time caller, yada yada. I've been to the Point a number of times and have been on WildCat a number of times. I've always enjoyed it and thought it was a fun ride. For those that don't remember, the original WildCat operated at Cedar Point from 1970 until 1978 when it was shipped off to Valleyfair where it ran as Wild Rails where it ran until the end of the 1998 season. The current incantation of the ride has of course ran starting in 1979.

The reason I felt obligated to chime in here is that I too once operated rides and while I get what tcgolfer is saying, I think he's off base. Even though I trusted the maintenance crew that worked on the ride that I was a crew member on I never fully trusted the ride. And, to be frank, its kind of worrisome that someone would think that way. I tended to think of (as I think a lot of ride ops do/did) the ride as like my car. You get to know all the sounds, sights and feels for the ride so that you're so in tune with the ride that you know what's wrong. To simply have blind faith that it will always run smooth I think is opening the door for a problem to happen down the line. Often the folks that had worked the ride for a while during the season are able to pick up on minor issues before they turned into major ones.

That being said, you do get attached to a piece of machinery, which is kind of silly, but its not too dissimilar from being attached to a house or a car, but just like those things you need to know when its time to move on, and for WildCat, that time seems to be now.

CoasterDude5 said:
The reason I felt obligated to chime in here is that I too once operated rides and while I get what tcgolfer is saying, I think he's off base. Even though I trusted the maintenance crew that worked on the ride that I was a crew member on I never fully trusted the ride. And, to be frank, its kind of worrisome that someone would think that way. I tended to think of (as I think a lot of ride ops do/did) the ride as like my car. You get to know all the sounds, sights and feels for the ride so that you're so in tune with the ride that you know what's wrong. To simply have blind faith that it will always run smooth I think is opening the door for a problem to happen down the line. Often the folks that had worked the ride for a while during the season are able to pick up on minor issues before they turned into major ones.

That being said, you do get attached to a piece of machinery, which is kind of silly, but its not too dissimilar from being attached to a house or a car, but just like those things you need to know when its time to move on, and for WildCat, that time seems to be now.

I know exactly what you're saying and you're right I respected the ride more than anything because I knew what it was capable of. I listened intently for little things about the ride that could point towards something that could be off. I don't think I ever fully trusted the ride because there is a reason we tested it every morning to be sure something wouldn't happen. I'm just saying that after two years there was some trust there. Thank you for at least understanding and posting your thoughts.

DJ,

I have said many times that I know my opinion is being colored by the fact that I was attached to the ride. I haven't tried to hide that. I just find it frustrating when everyone else here as you mentioned has gone through a similar type of loss and has no respect for my feelings. Does that make sense? I'm not trying to talk down to anyone really, just trying to share my passion.

I also never said I knew what was better for the park. I'm not going to try and be an armchair CEO, that's not my place.

TheNewGuy said:
Jeff, why do you get to decide when people are being "too dramatic" or feel entitled to mock people who otherwise express themselves, like above?

I didn't decide anything, I'm just saying what I believe, like everyone else. Am I to just sit quietly and never say anything because I write the checks to pay for the server? Yeah, that will happen.

^Zing!

Jeff said:

TheNewGuy said:
Jeff, why do you get to decide when people are being "too dramatic" or feel entitled to mock people who otherwise express themselves, like above?

I didn't decide anything, I'm just saying what I believe, like everyone else. Am I to just sit quietly and never say anything because I write the checks to pay for the server? Yeah, that will happen.

Just so everyone is aware. I have no problems with what Jeff has said especially consider I KNOW I'm being blinded slightly by emotion.

So, was it by chance the webcams were relocated right about the same time as the decision to remove Wildcat was made?

One was pointed right at it, while the midway cam would have likely caught the trucks hauling it's pieces on out of the park.

I think it's strange that we now have one returning that points to an area with nothing really happening and the other so far away you can't make out any detail.

When other construction projects had cameras on them, the locations stayed until (and after) the initial launch of the attractions.

99er, I'm crying over the speed slides! oh wait... no I'm not. When it comes to machines. I don't put my trust and faith in IT, I put my trust and faith in the people maintaining it. The reason it keeps functioning and working is because of the people who come and physically work on it. Without any kind of maintenance every type of machine will eventually break down and stop working, that's the only thing you can be sure of with a machine.

It's the same as the car you've had all your life and driven around the country in and created memories and stories and eventually it gives up and won't run anymore. You're sad, you move on (or at least should) and you tell the stories of that one time you drove it off a cliff and thought you were going to die, the memories are still there a ride doesn't store those memories, your brain does.

I was never fond of the ride, the dips and fast turns and whatnot were certainly fun, but it certainly isn't a family ride either. I rode it as a kid and was nearly thrown out of the car because of the lap bars, I got back to the station with the lap bar at my knees as I grasped the rest of the car to stay in, the safety issues have been going on for years at various levels of seriousness and let's be honest, with the new work their doing, it does look like crap now compared to the rest of the stuff around it.

Judging by the number of emotional comments posted here, I am suprised that management isn't auctioning off some of the key parts of Wildcat (operator console, cars, signs, heck, even the individual lights) as part of a fundraiser for a charity. They could still get the scrap $ for the metal, and a lot of good PR spin off the whole process - plus get free news mention of what is replacing it.

I thought I heard something about Cedar Point saving the WildCat cars, controls, and the chain lift? It might have been a rumor though.

When I examined it from the midway last spring, I realized that Wildcat had one of the most elaborate control systems in the park, just to operate the unload station brakes.

I expect they will keep and probably repurpose every working part of that control system. It would be very un-Cedar Point-like of them not to. Come to think of it, (thinking about what they did at Geauga Lake when they took down Mr. Hyde), I could see some of the other mechanical components having a second life at Cedar Point.

Not sure what the cars would be good for at this point, though....

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Certainly they'll keep a car or two for Halloweekends. They would look pretty cool painted black or something

Motorize them and rent them out to people to get around the park. :-)

For an extra charge, I'm sure. :)

I think I was most saddened to read that they are sending the parts "to a recycling plant" i.e. scrapyard? I would think CP could have auctioned it off to somewhere (even a private collector-esp. since it IS easily moved). Guessing that had they made this decision earlier, they may have tried this; again so sad to see it go to the trash heap. It wasn't a huge thrill, but a lot of fun (a great "giggle coaster"), and I have many fond memories of it. I hope Luminosity lives up to the hype.

I am someone who has long thought Cedar Point needs to focus more on family (not kiddie) attractions and as much as they are going to tout this year as adding new things for the family, I was happier with last years attractions. We lost Paddlewheel, which was something absolutely everyone could ride and a coaster that is smaller and easier to get people on (I know growing up it was a lot less intimidating looking than Iron Dragon even though riding it probably wasn't; meanwhile we Disaster Transport seemed like kind of an unknown being covered up).

What did we get in their place? An upcharge (I don't count that as added attraction if I'm paying extra for it) and a new show (which might be good and I'm not unhappy about, but doesn't come close to make up for the rides gone). They really need to focus on a few decent family rides going forward (maybe a dark one).

The ruination of Cedar Point is nearly complete.

You know, I found it annoying that because Jeff pointed out the post about feeling betrayed, several posters jumped on the bandwagon to point that out, even questioning tcgolfer’s sanity/ability as a ride operator.

Are you guys really serious? Do you think tcgolfer brought Wild Cat a cup of coffee every morning and talked about the latest sports game with it? Or said “Hey Wild Cat, there’s a sweet party this weekend that you’re invited to; I hear there’s going to be a Wild Mouse there.” ;)

Maybe it wasn’t the best possible word choice or wording, but I don’t think anyone should have gotten hung up on that. Step back and take a look at what the post was really about…someone very familiar to a ride, where the ride had a surprise failure. Of course you’re going to build trust in the functioning of the ride and lose some of that after the failure. He didn’t trust the ride in a personifiable way but had expectations based on his 100’s of thousands of past ride experiences.

Betray - to disappoint the hopes or expectations of

Wild Cat disappointed the hopes or expectations of tcgolfer.

Anyway, if you wouldn’t say something in person, don’t post it online. Anyone has the right to feel saddened by and question the loss of a ride/attraction or the style it was lost in. Most of the people making posts about how Wild Cat was just a stupid ride would be hypocrites themselves when one of their favorites was lost.

I cannot believe what i'm reading here. People talking about their loss of a ride. I swear that if i didn't know any better I'd think some of you had a family member pass away. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought we were talking about a coaster here. A machine! If you are really that torn apart by it go and have a funeral service at the recycling center, grieve and get over it!

For the record, yes I did ride Wildcat and yes, I did enjoy it. However, there are many more rides at the park for me to ride! I'm pretty certain that life will go on and I'll still have a damn good time at the park.

Ffej said:
because Jeff pointed out the post

I don't understand what you're trying to get at. Was the original post invisible until Jeff quoted it?

I wonder what the comments would be if the Internet existed when they took Jumbo Jet out?

I don't believe the park made an announcement, at least I didn't hear it if they did. What I remember is going over by Jumbo Jet and seeing Wildcat in its place.

I don't remember anyone really bothered by it. I got in line for Wildcat and wondered about Jumbo Jet not being there, but didn't really make a big deal about it. I just shrugged my shoulders and enjoyed the rest of the day. I think the Internet really brings out a lot of drama and over exaggeration.

I know I might get quoted on here, but it's alright. My thought is what's the big deal? I mean for most people, they skipped Wildcat just for the fact that the line was very slow moving. Another thing in my opinion that I will bring up is that even though it's a family ride, more people were in line line for Iron Dragon than Wildcat. This is from what I seen last year from 2011.

collchris2003 said:
I think I was most saddened to read that they are sending the parts "to a recycling plant" i.e. scrapyard? I would think CP could have auctioned it off to somewhere (even a private collector-esp. since it IS easily moved).

Easily moved, are you sure? I am thinking that over the years they more than likely welded the track together to give it added stability therefore making it immovable.

I talked to two people today that have been to Cedar Point a couple different times, one as a coaster enthusiast and the other lives in Cleveland and goes every couple years.

I told the enthusiast that Wild Cat was being taken down, her reply "Oh that crappy carnival coaster, good"

And the reply from the one who lives in Cleveland, "Good I haven't taken my family on that ride in a few years due to the safety issues."

So these two comments tell me that the general public overall won't notice and if they do won't care that the Wild Cat is gone.

Walt said:

I don't understand what you're trying to get at. Was the original post invisible until Jeff quoted it?

Walt, I'd bet you a large sum of money that if Jeff hadn't posted that, we wouldn't have seen people confidently attacking how stupid and worrisome the word betrayed was when discussing a ride, when this person was sad about losing one of their favorites (it was not even Jeff's original intent of the post the way I understood his). It was if the flood gates opened for a free shot to attack something; a little more respect would have been nice to see considering tcgolfer's attachment to the ride - I doubt people would have acted that way in person.

Pete, yes, the Internet has changed things dramatically. The difference back then is that people still had those thoughts, but there was nowhere to connect with a pool of hardcore fans to vent with. I can't tell you how many times I've heard my Dad mention Jumbo Jet, the Trabant, the double ferris wheel, etc. Had he been younger and had the Internet at his hands, maybe he'd be a forum member...or maybe venting / reminiscing about old rides just runs in the blood line. :)

I just think that some people here aren't taking into account that others may be fond of WildCat and need to show a little sensitivity when discussing the topic of it's removal. That doesn't mean you can't state your opinion or even be glad it's gone (I am) but it does mean you should consider the situation and how what you say may come across as antagonistic to some. Having spent 20 years of my life at Geauga Lake, I can sympathize with what some here are going through. The natural reaction is to search for answers and to lash out. They'll eventually accept what's going on but in the meantime, I suggest not fanning the flames as many here are doing. Feel free to correct them if they're wrong but please be respectful.

That said, there really isn't anything at Cedar Point outside Millennium Force that would upset me if it left. I get more upset when something at Disney or Universal is removed, as I get more attached to those attractions and was pretty upset that I didn't get to say goodbye to Jaws. Those kind of attractions have characters and stories and when they're removed, it's like finding out the last remaining negative of your favorite movie has been burned and that no copies survive (digital or otherwise), just still photographs (I miss JII and Horizons, thank god for virtual recreations).

bobby79 said:
The ruination of Cedar Point is nearly complete.

I'm not quite sure how the removal of this ride would qualify as ruining the park. I'm curious as to if you could explain this more.

Rides come and go and after 40 some years of going to parks I have seen a lot come and go. I remember coming to the park as a teenager and found the Sky Wheel gone. In my preteen years that was my favorite ride. But life goes on. The Wild Cat certainly won't be the last ride CP removes and probably not the last coaster they remove. Like I said before if this ride was at any other park it probably would have been removed years ago. KI had a galaxy in the 1970s called Baravian Beetle and that was removed about the time the Beast opened.
I think the strong reaction here and on facebook and other places is one it was a coaster and Cedar Point just doesn't remove coasters. Probably any park fan under the age of 40 doesn't remember the last time the did that. Removing coasters is what other parks did not Cedar Point. And secondly the timing of it. I don't recall them ever announcing a retirement of the ride just days before it opened.

Ffej said:
Are you guys really serious? Do you think tcgolfer brought Wild Cat a cup of coffee every morning and talked about the latest sports game with it?

He could. Makes me think back to a girl that worked on Mantis, she gave the ride a hug every morning and seriously considered it HER ride. She had a creepy attachment to it and hearing some of the things tcgolfer has said reminds me of her. I actually wondred what she would do when they remove Mantis. I have a feeling a candle light vigil would be hosted by her along with a lot of crying. There are Ride Hosts out there that are like that, its not uncommon at Cedar Point.

Not just "ride hosts" 99er. Some of those life guards and Challenged Park people are pretty borderline too. :)

Rob,

Come on man you know me personally. I don't expect you to stand up here and defend me or anything but you know I'm not like that. I know you're happy to see WildCat gone though ;)

99er,

What's so wrong about having an attachment to your ride? Like I've said you get to know your ride like the back of your hand and you start to be able to sense when something is not quite right just by sound or sight.

Ohh I wasn't saying anything about you tcgolfer, I know you cared about the ride. I just like giving 99er a hard time.

Walt said:

Ffej said:
because Jeff pointed out the post

I don't understand what you're trying to get at. Was the original post invisible until Jeff quoted it?

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

LOL @ those of you trying to tell the crazed Cedar Point fans to feel differently on a Cedar Point fan site. Just let the storm blow over and it will be fine. This is pretty normal fan site behavior as far the internet goes. People get over it.

Red Garter Rob said:
Not just "ride hosts" 99er. Some of those life guards and Challenged Park people are pretty borderline too. :)

That is why they are kept outside of the park.

tcgolfer said:

99er,

What's so wrong about having an attachment to your ride? Like I've said you get to know your ride like the back of your hand and you start to be able to sense when something is not quite right just by sound or sight.

I don't recall saying anything was wrong about it, did I?

I understand what you mean about being able to know when something is wrong just by hearing what your ride is doing. This summer a park I use to work at will not operate 23 of its rides that I was in charge of, some are going to sit and rust while others were sold off. One of them was a highly rated CCI coaster that is not being torn down but rather left to rot and fall apart. I love this industry probably more than anyone on this site but I am not taking the closing of all my rides personal because I know its business.

So does anyone know how much of WC they've gotten out? They're running out of time to have it ready in a week.

Judging by the DragsterCam, somewhere around 40%. They started on the west side of the ride and are sweeping from left to right (or right to left....not sure). They look to be at the half way part of the lift. I can see the ride being completely gone in another day or 2 depending on how many hours they're putting into it. They're still working on it as of right now so I'm betting the park is pushing pretty hard to have it out ASAP.

It's too bad none of these websites like Coasterbuzz, Screamscape, Theme Park Review have not posted anything as to what the midway looks like in that area since they took our fun away with the webcam. They must be trying to surprise us when we come on Opening Day.

By the way 2,500 posts...YAY!

Here you go.

Is that guy peeing on the remains of Wildcat???

How much do the track pieces and support beams weigh on Wildcat? They look super thin from that picture.

That ride looks so cheap. I feel like I could get my truck and just attach it to the back and drive home with it.

I ran into a friend at church today who's a long time employee. (security) WildCat not only had a fair bit of maintenance, but had already passed inspection! Ouimet came down personally to inspect the plaza and decided there just wasn't enough room. The ride is being ripped out in a hurry, rather than disassembled carefully, because of the time factor.

I meant that almost everything that, for me, is Cedar Point is gone. Other than a few rides, it is not the same park anymore. I have never understood why the 2nd oldest park in the USA has no regard for it's heritage other than a few photos in Frontier Town. And yes, we are down another family ride now too. There should have been a good balance of old and new. It is too late for that now anyway. But then I remember the horse-drawn stagecoach rides from the early 60s so my opinion is not demographically important anyway.

I think your opinion is important, but it's just as important to acknowledge that part of Cedar Point's heritage is to constantly evolve. Progress and development in the way of rides and attractions coming and going is part of what makes CP great in my opinion.

^ If you don't change things in the park, there wouldn't be an amusement park. While I don't agree with everything that CP is doing, you need to keep bringing new things into the park to keep attendance high. And in order to add new things with the amount of space CP has, you will have to get rid of some things in order to create space.

And, Bobby, there are actually many things I wish CP would bring back; not necessarily in terms of rides, but in atmosphere and family-focus. But guess what? Our wish is coming true. I can't wait to see Ouimet's impact in about 5 years. That's when we can really start evaluating the progress.

Bobby, maybe the reason they are the second oldest park is because they are successful in keeping the park fresh and updated. You want a thriving park with steady business, not an old ride museum that few people attend.

bobby79 said:
I meant that almost everything that, for me, is Cedar Point is gone. Other than a few rides, it is not the same park anymore.

But someone from the generation before you might have felt the same then as you do now. What if the park never evolved from what it was in the 40's to what it was in the 60's? That was a much more dramatic transformation.

I found the title of this article amusing.

http://www.newsparcs.com/en/#/article/00005784-cedar_point_removes_...ation_city

99er said:Here you go.

What are they doing there? It looks like they're taking it apart to paint it green and purple. ;)

Roz Stevenson said:
I ran into a friend at church today who's a long time employee. (security) WildCat not only had a fair bit of maintenance, but had already passed inspection! Ouimet came down personally to inspect the plaza and decided there just wasn't enough room. The ride is being ripped out in a hurry, rather than disassembled carefully, because of the time factor.

So is this enough proof for all the ones who said we were delusional to think this had everything to do with Celebration Plaza?

Perhaps, but it still supports the high maintenance case regardless.

So how come they couldn't do an Animation before expanding to see how it would look? Make sure it looks good before deciding to throw things in the middle of path? Also, what ever happened to planning things out? I'm now worried about future expansions if this is the way Cedar Point is going about things. Something won't fit next to blue streak? bye bye blue streak.

High maintenance costs and 2 separate accidents in the past 4 years that have injured 17 people. Wildcat was not aging well.

No, Tilt-a-Whirl, it's not, actually.

It was on it's last leg. Does it make sense to just kill it now? Yep.

I don't trust anyone from a church.

Well, anyway you look at it, if there was no Celebration Plaza, Wildcat would be opening this weekend as planned.

Using that logic....

If there were no Wicked Twister, we would still have the Aquarium

If there were no Maverick, we would still have the Swan Boats and White Water Landing

and so on and so on.

I remember Wildcat in all three locations in the park. I think my favorite was when it was in the spot where DT now sits. But, for the life of me, I can’t remember the orientation of the ride with respect to the rest of the park. I do remember that the queue went back to the beach. It seemed like every time we were waiting to ride, a storm was coming in off the lake and we would watch that red telephone on the platform to see if was going to ring. Of course if it rang, it was all over – the ride was shut down due to weather, and we had to get out of line.
I never did like it’s current location, partially because it took out my favorite flat of all time, Bayern Curve. Not to mention years later the terrible paint scheme of purple and green. I am glad this area of the park is getting some much needed attention, and I can’t wait to see it.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
So is this enough proof for all the ones who said we were delusional to think this had everything to do with Celebration Plaza?

If you consider a Security guard who just happens to go to church with a guy who posts on here proof then sure. Security guards always have the inside info on future development and mechanical issues with rides.

Sealedseven said:
Also, what ever happened to planning things out? I'm now worried about future expansions if this is the way Cedar Point is going about things. Something won't fit next to blue streak? bye bye blue streak.

How do we know it wasn't going to work with Wildcat there? Maybe it would have worked just fine and the park knew that but they came up with more ideas of how they could improve that area now. As has been mentioned before, its the same size midway as before with the laser show so it really isn't much of a difference. Besides, parks all across the country, including major parks like Disney and Universal go through the same thing when they build new attractions. No matter how much planning you do, you can never fully know what it will look or feel like until AFTER it is built.

TTD 120mph said:
What are they doing there? It looks like they're taking it apart to paint it green and purple. ;)

I'm sorry but that guy was an idiot. Either that or he was viewing it on an old Gateway monitor from 1995. :)

I can't wait to go to Celebration City.

^^Or he's been looking at Instagram photos for too long. :)

99er said:
No matter how much planning you do, you can never fully know what it will look or feel like until AFTER it is built.

Disney does. That new program they developed still boggles the mind.

^Even their system is flawed because they too have had to redesign or remove after something has been built.

Money is tight and we were probably only going to make it once this year. I know it's all in chain anyway so they don't care much, but this might push us going to Kings Island instead of Cedar Point this year. We usually go during Halloweekends anyway so the new show adds nothing, but losing 2 rides we liked will hurt.

I realize this is a day late or so...but still...

Unfortunately I have nothing to show you, but I did receive an email message this morning from Chief Inspector/Division Supervisor Michael A. Vartorella of the Ohio Department of Agriculture Amusement Ride Safety division that more or less confirms what I had heard about the Wildcat:

The Ohio Department of Agriculture has issued a "permit" to operate the Wild Cat Coaster for the 2012 season.

In other words, it is safe to assume that it did not fail its inspections this year. :)

To respond to something else in this thread...

Spit asked...

I remember Wildcat in all three locations in the park. I think my favorite was when it was in the spot where DT now sits. But, for the life of me, I can’t remember the orientation of the ride with respect to the rest of the park.

Wildcat sat with its back to the beach, so the front of the ride was more or less where the front of Disaster Transport is now. You may be conflating it with the Jumbo Jet which was located in a similar position but oriented with its tower end towards the parking lot. Switching Jumbo Jet with Wildcat and moving a couple of other rides around effectively re-oriented and opened up that corner of the park into the configuration we see today. Prior to 1979, that area was still a bit of a throwback to the days when the main midway ran from Blue Streak to the Fun House, perpendicular to today's main midway.

(user now waits for Pete to issue his corrections... :) )

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

No corrections needed Dave :) You described everything just like I remember it.

Does anyone remember when Cedar Point's other Wildcat left Cedar Point?

So is Rideman's evidence enough to rest this argument once and for all?

Wildcat was to open with the park as planned, Matt wanted Celebration Plaza expanded (just like the press release said), the ride was removed (in good working order, inspections passed, etc. etc.) to make such expansion happen.

Oh, and I'm not going to Magic Kingdom anymore because they're taking out Snow White's Scary Adventure. (rolls eyes)

The thought of someone not attending the park because of Wildcat's removal is simply staggering.

^Not necessarily. I won't be talking about it much anymore but just because it passed inspection and had its "permit" doesn't mean that something didn't happen after inspection and before the decision was made. We'll never know if anything happened or not really.

The ride was probably going to head out soon as stated, it was expensive and all that jazz. I'll miss it yes, but there really isn't anything that can be done. Onwards with 2012...it'll be a great season.

Nothing said anywere on this thread is evidence its all hearsay. Even the "quote" form the Department of Agriculture isnt evidence. It suggests something. but dosent mean something could have happend after the inspection.

If you want facts here they are. Wildcat was one of the oldest rides in the park. It had accidents in the past and im sure high maitnance costs. Cedar point is spending $6 million on a new show, This show is expecting large crowds.

We all know Kinzel didn't want to remove any ride, expectly a coaster. Ouimet probally wanted wildcat removed quickly, but didn't want to do it his first year. That said after seeing the space for himself and knowing the libialty issues with Wildcat he decided to get rid of it.

Wildcat was a fun little ride and im sad to see it go, but I cant understand the arugeing about it that has been going on. Who cares exatly why is was removed! everyone here pretty much seems to agree it was time. At the end of the day im sure it wasnt "this or that" that caused Wildcats removel but "this AND that"

Glenn Kidd said:
Does anyone remember when Cedar Point's other Wildcat left Cedar Point?

I don't know that anybody really remembers it; the only reason I know about it is that it was mentioned in the '79 Annual Report, which I read while doing some research...

The old Wildcat was located right about where the Oceana stadium (All Wheels Extreme show) is now. When the Jumbo Jet went away, the Wildcat was moved to Valleyfair!, and the new Wildcat (the one being removed now) was placed at the other end of what would soon (1980) become the Oceana midway. So the park has not ever been without a Wildcat since 1970; the transition between the old one and the new one was mistaken by most casual observers for a simple relocation.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Looking at this picture from Tuesday last week, and this one from today, looks like 90% is gone at this point.

Or this picture.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
Wildcat was to open with the park as planned, Matt wanted Celebration Plaza expanded (just like the press release said), the ride was removed (in good working order, inspections passed, etc. etc.) to make such expansion happen.

I don't know if I would say "good working order" especially since the park has already stated that its continued mechanical problems helped in the decision to remove it.

^^I didn't even realize you could see it that well from the TTD cam...I guess I don't pay attention.

Good Eye!

99er said:
I don't know if I would say "good working order" especially since the park has already stated that its continued mechanical problems helped in the decision to remove it.

No no no.

There are two, and only two, possibilities - either the ride collapsed spontaneously and spectacularly, or Matt has an insurmountable midway-as-a-concert-venue fetish that can only be satiated by removing rides and killing dreams (and probably kittens).

There's no possibility that this was a decision with multiple angles.

;)

Silly me thinking that the people who know what they are doing MIGHT actually know what they are doing. I went against the normal working order of Pointbuzz and actually used some logical sense. Thank you for correcting me, it won't happen again.

Also, love how you included the winkie, just in case. :)

djDaemon said:
and killing dreams (and probably kittens).

They didn't kill a kitten; it was a Wildcat! ;)

I think its fair to question management's decisions regarding the new show. Is it worth rushing the show so that its ready for this year? Would not having the show negatively effect attendance for this year? I don't think so.

I think the greater risk is that the show is rushed, rash decisions are made and the final product is not well received by the guests. Its hard to overcome a bad first impression or put back a ride you hacked apart.

The park is putting up coin for infrastructure, but the show itself is produced by a third party. I'm not particularly worried about it.

djDaemon said:
No no no.

There are two, and only two, possibilities - either the ride collapsed spontaneously and spectacularly, or Matt has an insurmountable midway-as-a-concert-venue fetish that can only be satiated by removing rides and killing dreams (and probably kittens).

You guys are all wrong! This is nothing more than a ploy for Magic Mountain to get the coaster crown. Matt is friends with Magic Mountain on Facebook, see for yourselves!

Since Matt came from Disneyland and Californians have a lot of disdain for Ohioans, this was his chance to help out Magic Mountain become the coast with the most. I can't believe those who have their head stuck in the sand. I was told this by a guy that drives a truck that delivers spare parts to Cedar Point, so I know what I'm talking about.

Either way, I'm mad and won't be going to the park anymore.

:)

RPM said:
I think its fair to question management's decisions...

Is it worth rushing the show...

...the show is rushed

...the final product is not well received by the guests.

Who said they're rushing the show? They're trying to get construction work completed for opening day, but there's no indication the show itself will be rushed.

Remember - Luminosity doesn't officially open until June 8th.

99er said:
^Even their system is flawed because they too have had to redesign or remove after something has been built.

???? I'm pretty sure their program accounts for everything. The Fanatsyland revamp is the first project to use it and I haven't heard of any problems. Has there been an incident?

Thanks, RideMan for the information about the other Wildcat.

Because we can totally say with certainty when the show doesn't even open for another month that Luminosity will not be well-received by guests, certainly not in comparison to the critical darling of a show it's replacing.

Skippy said:

???? I'm pretty sure their program accounts for everything. The Fanatsyland revamp is the first project to use it and I haven't heard of any problems. Has there been an incident?

99er has more first hand experience with the mouse than me, but I don't care how advanced a system is, there's no way to truly know how something will feel until you're standing right there looking at the construction. It might tell you all the exact facts you need, but there's something that can never come across digitally that compares to stepping back, looking at it and feeling the scale of something. Time and time again something looks great on paper and it's not until you see something next to another thing that you realize it doesn't feel or look right.

Exactly. My family owns a construction company and have a program that can show you a life like view of what the houses and building will look like completed, including furnishings. Even with that once it's built the view is entirely different and a lot of the times the computer renderings don't do the final product justice.

Wildcat anyone?

http://tinypic.com/r/e7f8mq/6

Zeek said:
Wildcat anyone?

http://tinypic.com/r/e7f8mq/6

I saw trucks with Wildcat pieces going into that metal recycling plant this afternoon. Its amazing how quickly it is gone!

Where exactly was that picture taken?

Sandusky Steel, right next to the 250 loop/overpass. That is where the park has all of their unwanted steel taken to.

Minus unwanted heart line rolls. ;)

^In that situation, I am betting Sandusky Steel didn't want the damn thing. That would be a lot to cut up. Probably why it is still sitting at Adena.

Skippy said:???? I'm pretty sure their program accounts for everything. The Fanatsyland revamp is the first project to use it and I haven't heard of any problems. Has there been an incident?

I was referring to past projects that have been built but needed to be modified after the fact. The FL expansion is not complete yet but the final outcome is not the same as it was when the project started.

josh88 said:
Time and time again something looks great on paper and it's not until you see something next to another thing that you realize it doesn't feel or look right.

Exactly. You can have the best 3D imagining program, a fully built model but that still does not mean once you see it actually done that it might need changed. I use a 3D program that allows me to design lighting for concerts. It is only for me to get an idea of what it will look like on the stage. I know that the finished product will look different to me than it did on my small 32" screen.

Everyone assumes they need more room for people and that is why Wildcat was removed. Maybe the plan calls for something they want to add for the show, like another smaller stage on the other side so you are completely surrounded by the show as you walk through. What about food/beverage stand near the Wildcat bathrooms?

josh88 said:
99er has more first hand experience with the mouse than me, but I don't care how advanced a system is, there's no way to truly know how something will feel until you're standing right there looking at the construction. It might tell you all the exact facts you need, but there's something that can never come across digitally that compares to stepping back, looking at it and feeling the scale of something. Time and time again something looks great on paper and it's not until you see something next to another thing that you realize it doesn't feel or look right.

IDK, I watched a two hour explanation of the tech and was completely blown away. They literally build the ride in a computer. I'm talking steel frame structure, wiring, air ducts, outlets, exit signs, break rooms, piping for water fountains, everything. They know every screw that will be used during construction or how many paint cans they'll go through, it's crazy. If anything conflicts with something else (lets say part of the building will show through the theming or a support beam collides with an air duct) the computer automatically alerts them and they'll fix it right there. They then strap on some VR helmets and take a virtual walk through. If something looks too tight or the theming isn't placed right, they'll fix it right there before they even start construction. Once they complete the attraction virtually, the computer breaks down the construction of the ride exactly how it will be built in real life and then shows you where it will be on each day of construction. Their budgets are pretty freaking exact now.

99er said:
The FL expansion is not complete yet but the final outcome is not the same as it was when the project started.

Yeah but didn't they change project leads part way through? After that, it's been smooth sailing thanks to that project planning tech they developed.

Skippy said:

IDK, I watched a two hour explanation of the tech and was completely blown away. They literally build the ride in a computer. I'm talking steel frame structure, wiring, air ducts, outlets, exit signs, break rooms, piping for water fountains, everything. They know every screw that will be used during construction or how many paint cans they'll go through, it's crazy. If anything conflicts with something else (lets say part of the building will show through the theming or a support beam collides with an air duct) the computer automatically alerts them and they'll fix it right there. They then strap on some VR helmets and take a virtual walk through. If something looks too tight or the theming isn't placed right, they'll fix it right there before they even start construction. Once they complete the attraction virtually, the computer breaks down the construction of the ride exactly how it will be built in real life and then shows you where it will be on each day of construction. Their budgets are pretty freaking exact now.

I get how it works, but there's something to be said about physically being there. You'll still know and feel a VR helmet on you and just because you see it in front of you, doesn't mean you get the real feel for the environment. It's like buying a huge tv because it looks great in the store and you can see your room and think yeah it'll fit great and you shove it in your tiny closet of a bedroom and step back and say holy crap it's bigger than my bed and takes up 3/4 of the space.

I'm sure in mockups shoving the booth right up to the station of wildcat looked fine, but even people on here agreed it looked crowded and bad. Software will never compare to being on site, until we have some sort of crazy holodeck type thing where you can touch and feel everything and can't tell virtual from reality.

Weird that Wildcat and the big screen are still on the map.

josh88 said:
It's like buying a huge tv because it looks great in the store and you can see your room and think yeah it'll fit great and you shove it in your tiny closet of a bedroom and step back and say holy crap it's bigger than my bed and takes up 3/4 of the space.

It's really nothing like that...at all. Maybe if that store also virtually recreated your room with the TV in it and then gave you a VR helmet to see how it works but otherwise...yeah.

josh88 said:
I'm sure in mockups shoving the booth right up to the station of wildcat looked fine, but even people on here agreed it looked crowded and bad. Software will never compare to being on site, until we have some sort of crazy holodeck type thing where you can touch and feel everything and can't tell virtual from reality.

You see, I doubt Cedar Fair had time to make many mockups at all. Some concept drawings and then some schematics but nothing really more then that. If they built Celebration Plaza and all that surrounds it to scale and then virtually walked through it, they would've known if something didn't work. Too bad they didn't do that.

^Lets say they did do that, back in November. It is announced in December that Wildcat will be removed for this up coming season. What is the difference between knowing in December instead of April that the ride will not operate this season? If we knew 4 months earlier that it would not operate would that have saved us from the complaining or the thoughts that Cedar Fair does not know how to design a new attraction?

No, but we could have spread the bitching out over a few months rather than trying to cram it all into a week and half.

To be honest, if they would have announced it at the time they announced Celebration Plaza I would have been a lot less upset.

Care to explain why? That is what I am failing to understand is what would be the difference between finding out in December, January, February, March or April.

I can understand the inital shock being a lot more this way, it was for me. I wouldnt have batted an eye if they announced it months ago. With be being torn doen a few weeks before opening iw was a shock, but now what dose it matter. Either way its not opening this year, end of story.

Not to be dramatic and personify Wild Cat, but a sudden death or end to something is always harder to deal with than one that is expected. Our brains have less time to reason and accept the outcome.

That's a big part of what had me upset with Wild Cat, but that will pass. What I'm still bothered about is that not only is Wild Cat lost, but Iron Dragon's appearance and significance has further declined (Mantis & TTD hurt it enough), and Luminosity seems in the wrong spot.

If I was given a heads up that Wild Cat would be closed at the end of the season in August, and that Luminosity would take Wild Cat's place, I'd much more agree with that planning. They would have had less construction, better aesthetics, and they wouldn't have to reprint brochures nor falsely advertise the attractions.

Thinking from the business standpoint, I'm sure they would've rather taken WC out months ago if they knew what they do now. They could've moved it, sold it, or shipped it to another CF park. But things don't always work out. I'm sure enthusiastslike us would've rather seen it put to use in one way or another, but it is what it is.

I'm sure Iron Dragon's appearance won't be that bad! Think of it this way, the average family that comes 1+2 a year or their first time back in 5 years might think that it's cool that it's hidden. As crazy as that sounds, we cannot just think Iron Dragon is ruined because of Luminosity. :)

The thing about the appearance of things is sometimes, you have to be ready for a change. Even if you may not agree with it. Growth is necessary.....and that growth will sometimes lead to changes in appearances.

Well I know I'm ready to see Luminosity in front of Iron Dragon. I'm prepared for that, but It's going to be strange not seeing Wildcat or the big white screen. I didn't mind Wildcat, but I wasn't a huge fan of it either. I know a lot of people on here were and that's going to be hard for them on Opening day. For me the change will be seeing a big empty space that Wildcat once occupied.

I don't think it will be a big empty space, I'm expecting that it will be nicely integrated with the rest of Celebration Plaza. They have enough time to poor concrete and add landscaping.

Isn't it already concrete? Otherwise all they really have to do is clean the concrete and do whatever they planned to do in the 3 remaining days till Saturday. I'm going to bet that we'll see some rope and "pardon our mess" signs. ;)

While only rumor, there is a poster on KICentral, TheLip2, that claims to have run into Ouimet on the midway, having a conversation with him. I found this tidbit interesting about Wild Cat:

"I totally forgot two other things that he said. He asked what my favorite park was and I told him that I really liked Kings Dominion. He then went on to tell me how great the GM Pat Jones is down there. When he was asking me about visits to Cedar Point and discussing that park he said something like, "Be honest with me, are you mad at me?" I said, "Mad at you for what?" He said, "For taking out Wildcat." I replied that I did not even know that they were taking out Wildcat. He then asked if I ever got to ride it and I said that I had. That was pretty much the end of that part."

The other thing he claimed Ouimet said:

"We need to do something for you guys down here to replace Son Of Beast because there just isn't anything we can do with it."

Of course this is just a poster on the Internet, but it does sound believable and match several other reports. From what you experienced, Jeff, does this sound like Ouimet, asking lots of questions like these?

Ffej said:
...Iron Dragon's appearance and significance has further declined...

Yeah, I'm totally going to miss looking at ID's transfer track as well. It's so beautiful, and added lots of charm to the park.

...Luminosity seems in the wrong spot.

Perhaps to those of us who haven't actually analyzed the situation it does. But I think it's wise to defer to the people who actually know what they're doing. There's no better spot for Luminosity. There may be alternatives, but none that are better.

I believe I was the very first person on these forums to mention the lack of front-center space for the orientation of Luminosity, on April 22nd, by looking at the posted pictures, demos, and park maps.

BayernKurve agreed and followed up on April 22nd with, "I'm calling it right now about Luminosity.....I think it is going to be so packed/crowded that Wildcat will end up needing to be moved..."

These were apparently valid observations/opinions/predictions, and we didn't need to be in charge of planning to make them.

djDaemon followed up with "I don't think moving WC would create any "usable" space - you're really just gaining a chunk of concrete between a fence, some bathrooms and the theater."

My point being...you love to call people out for observations/opinions/predictions being invalid since we're not in charge of the park. Yet, you make your own and you're not in charge of the park. Where were your facts that removing Wild Cat would not create any usable space for Luminosity? Where are your facts that there is no better spot for Luminosity? Your opinion is just as valid as mine.

I made one statement regarding my opinion about the removal of WildCat. I was wrong, obviously. (Also, ad hominem.)

You've reiterated multiple times that Luminosity is in the wrong spot, the planning was done poorly and that the park's leadership is questionable. That's hardly the same thing as my comment about WildCat being moved.

As for suggesting there is no better spot for Luminosity, I have the following fact: there is no other open area in the park large enough and with adequate access.

You suggested Luminosity could be put in where AWE currently resides. As I pointed out the last time you made the suggestion (and ignoring the fact that the area in question is smaller than the ID midway), doing so would require demolishing a live entertainment venue, which leads to no net gain in terms of live entertainment offerings. Presumably, the reason Luminosity exists in the first place is to expand the entertainment offerings in the park. This is to say nothing of the possibility that the park may very well have plans for the area you suggest as an alternative.

Its good to see that even with a Disney god in charge, folks still armchair QB the place.

djDaemon said:
There's no better spot for Luminosity. There may be alternatives, but none that are better.

That is the potentially troubling statement. I do not know what the show is but if they are trying to put 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound bag that is a problem. Simply saying that where they put the show is better than any alternatives does not necessarily make it work.

Now if they have the space limitations defined and work within those constraints and put 5 pounds of stuff into a 5 pound then they are in good shape.

I think that the concern that some folks have is that the show has grown beyond what it started out as and will no longer fit into the area. Without seeing the show I do not know how anyone could know that, but with the removal of Wildcat I can appreciate how that way of thinking can come about.

CPboy77 said:
Weird that Wildcat and the big screen are still on the map.

The map I picked up at the park over the weekend does not have the big screen. It does include WildCat though.

The map on the website has now been updated to include Luminosity but still shows Wildcat. The PDF version is even called "CPMAP_wLUMO."

It still doesn't have any labels on it though. I'm not sure how that's helpful for "planning a visit." Why not just upload a PDF of the same map used in the printed version?

That map makes Wildcat look tiny, I know it's a small footprint ride and the map isn't to scale but that map really over does it.

[url][url]One of the last photos of Wildcat. RIP

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=388568514514847&set=a.123609194344115.8755.123605507677817&type=1&theater

Look! The map includes DA!! wow! saved me $5 :)

djDaemon said:
I made one statement regarding my opinion about the removal of WildCat. I was wrong, obviously. (Also, ad hominem.)

You've reiterated multiple times that Luminosity is in the wrong spot, the planning was done poorly and that the park's leadership is questionable. That's hardly the same thing as my comment about WildCat being moved.

You've made plenty more than one opinion on the topic. Also, where did I ever attack your personal character in that post?

Yes, I believe Luminosity is in the wrong spot, and I was not referring to AWE; I was referring to placing it directly in Wild Cat's place, to avoid cluttering Iron Dragon (and I'm entitled to this opinion).

Yes, I do believe the planning was done poorly for this project, and I've already stated my reasons for that (again, I'm entitled to the opinion).

You twisted what I said about the leadership. I never said the leadership was questionable in general, but that I questioned them for this particular project. In fact, I pointed out how much I agreed with the leadership decisions multiple times, excluding this project.

And people thought I was talking crazy talk back on April 22!! lol

I think there is a lesson to be learned here for all involved with the planning of Luminosity; Cedar Point is as much Disney in the hearts and minds of it's loyal fans. NEVER would Disney pull out an attraction without prior warning for fans to get in their last rides, photographs, souveniors, etc. The powers that be at CP need to keep this in mind going foward; I think the issue everyone has based on all the comments on various sites is the simple fact CP fans weren't "psychology eased" into the transition (which you would have thought Cedar Fair would have learned their lesson from how the closing of Geauga Lake was handled and the long running anger Northeast Ohio still holds towards Cedar Fair, but I digress.)

Personally, I am totally fine with Wildcat being removed knowing what this show has the capability of being (again, with proper execution.) My only wish is for Matt Ouiment and John Hildebrant to remember it is the DETAILS that make all the difference, whether it be how you handle removing something from the park, adding something to the park, or any other changes. Nail the details and I guarantee you the comment boards will return to singing nothing but praise for Cedar Point/Cedar Fair.

My visits to Cedar Point will be all the more enjoyable if there are any who don't show up there because Wildcat was removed without warning. Because, chances are, those are the type of people who would be complaining while there and I will be much happier not having to listen to them.

Had they announced its closing back in October, people who be bitching that they should have announced it in August. Those who couldn't get to the park for a final ride in August would have bitched that it wasn't announced earlier in the summer. Nobody wins when a ride closes but the park does not own anyone a last chance to get a ride in, especially if it is for something small like Wildcat.

BayernKurve said:
NEVER would Disney pull out an attraction without prior warning for fans to get in their last rides, photographs, souveniors, etc.

Has Disney officially announced that Snow Whites Scary Adventures is closing in a couple weeks for good? Asking because I didn't hear one.

I don't feel the park has a responsibility to "psychologically ease" the loss of a ride. That's taking it a bit too far. Outside of enthusiasts, no one is going to lose sleep over Wildcat being gone.

Had they announced it when they announced Luminosity then people would have at least been able to see the connection and been able to understand a little better. To be honest if it would have happened then, then I wouldn't of had time to help coach my former crew member and who was going to be the ATL on what to expect and what to be ready for.

Also, I wouldn't of had time to be getting excited to ride it again with my friends at the controls. There is a huge difference between ripping it out 2 weeks before the season starts and months in advance as far as the psychology associated with each.

Kevinj said:
I don't feel the park has a responsibility to "psychologically ease" the loss of a ride. That's taking it a bit too far. Outside of enthusiasts, no one is going to lose sleep over Wildcat being gone.

That is where you're wrong. I've heard and overheard many families talk about how disappointed they are. These are people who live around Dayton, who would be in the KI zone per-say. I was surprised to hear it to be honest but this goes beyond just enthusiasts.

I didn't say people would not be disappointed, but some of you talk about this as if it is going to lead to some type of adjustment disorder. Of course there is disappointment; there should be.

Was the timing crappy? I would never argue with anyone on that, but I think CP realizes that to. If you did not see Wildcat's end coming, you've had blinders on. I bet we could come up with a list of the next 5 rides to go, and be pretty accurate.

I just wish they would have put the stage where Wildcat was. It would seem more symmetrical and flow better. (In my opinion, don't yell at me) :)

Well, we'll all get to form an actual opinion based in reality next week.

:)

Kevinj said:
I don't feel the park has a responsibility to "psychologically ease" the loss of a ride. That's taking it a bit too far. Outside of enthusiasts, no one is going to lose sleep over Wildcat being gone.

Unfortunately, running a business is as much a psychological game as anything else (which really is a great part of successful marketing/PR.) Wildcat leaving impacts: rollercoaster enthusiasts, Cedar Point fanboys and historians, families with children 48"+ but not 52"+ for the bigger rides....those are core marketing demographics, or the "base," of Cedar Point. Losing a coaster also impacts the long running marketing tagline of "Rollercoaster Capitol of the World" when in fact Magic Mountain now officially holds that claim. It is the responsibility of a public company, which is what Cedar Fair is, to execute business decisions professionally, intelligently and with integrity (which I might add is a Cedar Fair "cornerstone") for the financial benefit of shareholders.

I am certain this decision is worthwhile and will be in the best interest of Luminosity based on what I know, I just hope and pray this isn't how issues and projects are handled in the future.

^ I just wanted to add that even though we lost a roller coaster, I believe we will gain that title back! It might take a couple of years, but I think Cedar Point cares about quality for families rather than pleasing the Thrill Seekers all the time.

99er said:
Has Disney officially announced that Snow Whites Scary Adventures is closing in a couple weeks for good? Asking because I didn't hear one.

They told everyone that Snow Whites Scary Adventures was being replaced with a giant princess meet-n-greet about a year ago or whenever it was they announced the revised Fantasyland expansion. As far as publicly announcing it (i.e. using newspapers and local news stations), I honestly don't know. What people here need to realize is that Disney has the luxury of being open year round. They don't have an off-season when decisions are made and people can't possibly ride an attraction before it closes.

Reality check: Other than a vocal minority who visit sites like this one a dozen times a day, no one is going to care that Wildcat is gone. 99.9999% of people will not suffer any psychological damage from the removal of Wildcat. The only obvious psychological damage I can see is on behalf of those spending much of their day coming up with silly theories and irrational motivation for the park taking the action that it did.

I ran into the GM today, and he asked me if people were that upset about it, and I told him what I perceive as the reality: That yes, a very vocal but very small group of people can't let go.

It was a favorite ride of mine, for sure, and one that I'll unfortunately never get to share with my kid. That's a bummer. At least I've got the sense to move on, and enjoy what is shaping up to be one of the coolest things the park has done outside of rides probably in my lifetime.

Jeff, you forgot to mention the substantial number of people who *won't even notice* that Wildcat is gone. That group, by the way, includes people who ride it on every visit.

I'm remembering when Kings Island fixed Flight of Fear back in '01. People got off the ride and looked at their on-ride photos, which were surrounded by copies of a sample taken years earlier. In the photos, you could see the obvious change...and people stood there, looked at the photos, and still couldn't figure out what was different.

In other words, people tend not to pay attention.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

^Yep. I will miss Wildcat, but most people will just walk by. I'm not even going to tell my family when we go, just to see how long it takes them to notice. Wildcat was an OK ride that outlived it's stay.

Ffej said:
I never said the leadership was questionable in general...

Your posts certainly implied that, though maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Regardless, all I'm saying is that you've been questioning management an awful damn lot for someone who's not privy to all the relevant information.

...it really made the whole Luminosity project look poorly planned, which will cast doubts on the leadership.

...especially right out of the gate under a new CEO, you don't want to make questionable decisions.

...this whole situation just seemed poorly planned out.

... it really makes me question the new management style.

I think anyone has the right to question that decision making.

...management's past decision making.

I'm questioning the new decision-making, plain and simple.

...this decision just seems really off and poorly planned.

I get that you don't agree with the decision, or at least, how the decision was reached. I think you've made that crystal clear. But again, that's an awfully strong opinion for someone who simply doesn't know all the details. And no, I don't know all the details either, but then again, I'm not repetitively second guessing those who do.

Just because we don't know all of the details we're not allowed to second guess? Or is there some kind of threshold to the second guessing that you feel he has crossed?

This is a forum after all.

I never suggested second guessing is out of the question. But yes, I am saying that without having all the relevant information (as CP/CF management does, obviously), there is such a thing as too much second guessing.

The people in charge are professionals. I have a feeling that if some of you walked into a meeting with them, you'd be a lot more withholding in your criticism on the issue, simply because you're not hiding behind the relative anonymity of a fan forum. Furthermore, if they explained their decision making process with you, you'd likely feel silly for making such a big deal about how bad their decision making abilities appear.

There's a reason why armchair quarterbacks are so derided.

I'll miss Wildcat, it was a fun ride that I liked to get on once per visit even though friends I was with usually "didn't want to waste their time on it." But I won't miss it as much as I miss Pepsi Blue. I'll never forget the day I walked into my highschool cafeteria to the vending machine and it was gone. That one cut me deep.

To be honest if I were sitting down and having a discussion with them that would be the first thing I ask about. As someone who respects the company and wants to see it do well of course I'm going to wonder why and give them my criticisms. Of course that doesn't mean they have to listen. I don't know if I would feel silly or not and neither do you.

Derided, good word, to be honest I had to look it up to be sure of the definition. Learned something new today.

djDaemon said:

A crap ton of quotes....

dj,

I normally enjoy your posts, but dude, you seriously need to chill out. I'm getting to the point of just skipping over your posts. Just trying to be nice.

~Rob

Seriously? I made two posts in this thread yesterday, and this is my third today. I suppose if that's too much, then yeah, go ahead and skip them.

I am no good at posting pics or webcam stuff on here, but if you look at the dragster cam, it looks like a fence went up where the edge of WildCat stood, so you won't be able to walk in that area anyways.

It could be the sun reflection but it looks like a fence at the back of the booth tower.

I'm guessing Cedar Point will gain more money than they will lose as a result of removing Wildcat. They may lose a very few who MIGHT have traveled there due to them sharing the title of most roller coasters in a park. What would have hurt them more, is putting in this show and not having enough room for guests to view it properly.
While I do love roller coasters more than shows, in my older age, I have come to the realization that drawing people in who will spend more money than us coaster enthusiasts do in a day will get a new ride that much sooner that we will enjoy.
I am actually more excited to get to the Point this year to see all of the improvements they've made than I was about getting there to ride Windseeker last year

PB-Reader said:
...it looks like a fence went up where the edge of WildCat stood...

You might be right. It may be that the fence is up while they finish that small section of the midway, so they can concentrate on finishing the main area of ID's midway. After all, Luminosity doesn't start until June, so the extra space won't be needed for a few weeks.

dj, yes, it could be for hiding construction in that area while the park is open.

For those interested here is the webcam picture. http://bit.ly/J0Br0J

djDaemon said:
After all, Luminosity doesn't start until June, so the extra space won't be needed for a few weeks.

But they don't need any extra space;)

I am guessing that the corridor for passing thru the lumminosity area that they assured us was in the plan now goes behind the control booth.

Shades said:

djDaemon said:
After all, Luminosity doesn't start until June, so the extra space won't be needed for a few weeks.

But they don't need any extra space;)

Touche'. :)

It sucks that they don't have another webcam looking on in that area. It is so hard to see that tiny little space. Oh well, If I have to I will upload pictures showing the fence because like normal, I will have my camera ready! :)

I figured there would be comments to this thread after people had a chance to see the area.

In my opinion there is certainly a space issue. The stage justs pretty far into the midway. Add in the curved benches and whatever the large circle things are and I dont see how there will be room to fit in a crowd and have people be able to walk through that section. Count me in as a believer that there really was nothing wrong with Wildcat, it simply had to go to give more space, assuming once they have that area cleaned out they remove the fence.

I think the fenced off area is being used for a staging area for the construction workers while the work continues on Luminosity at Celebration Plaza

That would make sense for the fenced area. I was surprised to see work going on late Sunday afternoon. Nothing like double time for the electricians on Mother's Day.

I think Shades is right on the space issue.With the temporary fence approximately at the former edge of Wildcat, and any kind of crowd watching a show that leaves very little space for through traffic.

While I was riding Mean Streak yesterday, I noticed that the Wild Cat cars are still sitting in the infield. Anybody else notice this? If so, does anyone know what they are planning on doing with them?

I noticed. I'm sure they can be used for parts. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them was taken over by the HalloWeekends planners and turned into a prop.

The cars uallasy in frot of Gemini for Halloweekends are from the original Wildcat arnt they?

Shawn Meyer said:
While I was riding Mean Streak yesterday, I noticed that the Wild Cat cars are still sitting in the infield. Anybody else notice this? If so, does anyone know what they are planning on doing with them?

New cars for CCMR. ;)

In talking with Brian at the ACE event. He said they planned on sending one of them to the National Roller Coaster Museum and Archives in Texas. He also said that he wanted to put one in the lobby in the Marketing office, as all the other departments had cool things while they didn't. I would not be surprised if they also used one for Halloweekends.

^ Bryan also said one might go in the Town Hall museum.

Ah yeah, I thought I was forgetting one of them.

Well, Cedar Point is losing more than a 3rd rate roller coaster (personally I would rather see Dragging Iron, the Mine Ride or the Junior Gemini go than WildCat (all three of those are just horrible rides) and this idea that it costs too much to maintain is ludicrous. That style of coaster is moved around with MOVING CARNIVALS. If dirt poor carnies can manage that coaster so can the number one amusement park on the planet! It would cost them next to nothing to relocate it. They could even put it in a small corner of the parking lot near the Blue Streak or something. It takes up almost no space.

Why do I even care when it's not much of a coaster? For one thing, it's got a lot more history than many other rides and Cedar Point seems to have lost most of its classic rides already (and with the loss of Geuaga Lake which was a TRAVESTY but something I just knew would happen if Cedar Fair bought it), there just aren't any classic style rides left unless you want to drive to Knoebels and they don't have everything (I really miss the Rotor, for example).

More importantly, Cedar Point has lost its "Roller Coaster Capital of the World" title to Six Flags now. They SHOULD have moved The Big Dipper from Geauga Lake to to Cedar Point (THAT is a classic coaster!) and passed them up. I'd rather have that than a log ride. Put it on the beach. Make a boardwalk area on the beach and bring back classic rides like the Trabien swing from Geauga Lake (used to be common to all the classic parks and now only Disneyland has one in California!) Cedar Point just doesn't seem to be thinking too hard on how they can best use their space. They've got the beach and the parking lot to work with. Heck, I'd rather them tear down the Mean Streak (awful, just awful ride) and put the Big Dipper there instead for that matter. Really, CP should work on improving their existing line-up like Kennywood did with the Phantom (HUGE improvement).

Still holding on to that, eh?

That sure sounds like the whole first 5/8 of this discussion repeated in one post. :)

In that case, let me take "5/8' of VM's arguement and go off on a different tack:

*If dirt poor carnies can manage that coaster so can the number one amusement park on the planet!

*It would cost them next to nothing to relocate it. It takes up almost no space.

*it's got a lot more history than many other rides and Cedar Point seems to have lost most of its classic rides already (and CF tries to strike a balance between the old & new)

Different Tack: it was a good coaster. Despite its size, Wildcat packed a nice wallop. There is plenty of space in the park to move it to.

BTW, I agree with the "Make a boardwalk area on the beach and bring back classic rides " idea.

Exactly how many "dirt poor carnies can manage that coaster" are there managing Wild Cats today?

See if you can answer the question Why?.

There is a Wild Cat, but it's a wooden roller coaster and it resides in Hershey PA. :)

If this topic was a dead horse, there wouldn't be much of it left to bury. :)

Call me crazy, but when I think "Cedar Point", Wildcat is not exactly on the "iconic" list. Of course it's not fun to say goodbye to a coaster, but I don't personally know anyone who cares one iota.

Wildcat? Take it or leave it. I personally think the space is being used in a much better way now.

I think a lot of posters here suffer from near-sightedness. What I mean by that is nearly everyone on this board has absolutely no idea what the future plans are for Cedar Point with that area, or any other place where changes get made that upset a a very small minority. You simply cannot take the changes that happen from year to year as an end; every change, shift, removal, and update is part of a grander long-term plan that many don't even consider.

That came out of nowhere. I wonder if he just found out.

Kevinj said:
I personally think the space is being used in a much better way now.

What exactly is the space being used for now? All I see is a brand new fence hiding trailers. We don't know what the plans are for that area yet.

It was discussed in another thread that it's bleachers behind the fence.

^ Not trying to call you a liar, but which thread? I only remember speculation that bleachers would fit nicely there.

EDIT: Found it in the Luminosity Testing thread.

I can speculate that many people, at least 5 of them, didn't know Wildcat was gone.
I was sitting outside Coaster's, and 5 teens were walking through. One of them said, "It only sits 4 in a car, so we have to go 3 and 2", that is all my daughter heard them say, and she laugh and repeated it to me, and pointed to the 5 teens that said it.
They rounded the corner of Coaster's, and stopped. I didn't hear what they said they were too far away, they just all turned around and walked toward scrambler.
That's my speculation for the day. :)

Well WildCat is still on the park maps around the park so it confuses people.

Hopefully they can modify next month's shipment of park maps so that way people know that's it's for sure gone.

^ You know that may help a little but not totally. Some people come to the park still wondering where Demon Drop is.

Never said it was iconic--merely that it was an underrated coaster that packed a nice punch for its size. I'm not claiming it is Magnum II, or even Gemini II, but it is a nice little coaster. And it doesn't cost much to disassemble & move, as has been demonstrated by its past movements.

And, even if the space it was on is being better used now, are you claiming that every other space in the park is being put to better use than it would be with Gemini?

How many people do you actually see using their park maps? I think I can count on one hand the people I have seen this season even possessing a map. It isn't a difficult park to navigate.

Well its been a bit since everyones last post, so now that everyone has visited the park, and seen how it looks, would wildcat have interfered as management had said? What are your thoughts on the show?

It would of looked terrible if they kept it, IMO.

WildCat could have been kept if they really wanted to keep it, but it does look like removing it was the best decision. They replaced WildCat with bleachers for Luminosity and those bleachers are FILLED. They should have really made larger bleachers than what they made.

Those bleachers look so temporary IMO. I think this coming off-season they will put more in since they'll have more time with planning. As for the control booths for the show, they seem kind of "in the way". There is more unused space where Wildcat once stood, so hopefully they utilize it for next year.

I think it looks much better after its removal. The Luminosity area really looks great to me. I'm impressed.

Except I'm not a huge fan of the temporary wavy benches they sit out in the middle of the midway during the day. The look... well, temporary. Like Twisted said above.

^I believe he was talking about the bleachers in Wildcat's former location. The wavy benches are concrete and do not look temporary.

coolkid said:
^I believe he was talking about the bleachers in Wildcat's former location. The wavy benches are concrete and do not look temporary.

Yeah, I got he was talking about the bleachers. I was just going on a "you know what else looks temporary?" tangent.

But the concrete wavy benches do also look temporary because I'm pretty sure they are - they move them for Luminosity, right? They certainly look like they're just sitting on the pavement. I dunno - I like everything to be in its place and stay there. :)

Those wavy benches along the middle of the midway are not moved.

99er said:
Those wavy benches along the middle of the midway are not moved.

I stand corrected.

Though they aren't moved, they could be. But, you'd need a fork lift and/or a crane. They are just sitting on the concrete. But, they are solid concrete themselves.