X-Flight Hitting it's Best Numbers Now

Point is, though, you DID know what I was talking about. :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

The "Arrow Dance" can be kind of dangerous. I know of two employees from days past who got their shoelaces caught on the foot pedals and were dragged through the station.

My understanding of the X issues from Someone Who Might Be In The Know is that the coaster and trains had trouble from the beginning. The trains so much so that parts from the second train had to be used to piece together the first. So, in this case the park may not be at fault for the slow operation of that particular coaster.

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"You can dream, create, design and build the most wonderful place in the world...but it requires people to make the dreams a reality."

I agree partially in the way that Cedar Point wasn't responsible for Dragster's problems (some of them anyway), but in the end they had to make it work.

X-Flight's trains are needlessly complex, and once you see B&M's flyer in action that's painfully obvious. Remember, Paramount helped pay for the R&D of the Vekoma model when they built Stealth/Borg, and relinquished the exclusivity deal because they weren't going to build a second one, thus the additions in Cleveland and at Six Flags America. Abandoning that was a wise move, if you ask me.

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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - My Blog
Blogs, photo albums - CampusFish
What time does the water show start?

It's worth noting that the Stealth trains were not as complex as the X-Flight trains, as for Stealth, Vekoma used a mechanical linkage to recline the seats, much like the system on the B&M flying coaster. I believe X-Flight got the added complexity of the onboard computer and hydraulic system because of the desire to recline the seats on the lift and set them back up on the final brake run. That's also why there are busbars from the final brakes, through the stations, and up to the top of the lift. It was a neat idea, and as a timesaver, it makes it possible to run three trains. But I understand the dynamic loads on the train were causing cylinder rods to get bent and stuff like that when they tried to shift the seats on the move. So the intention was good, it just didn't work.

Personally, I think they could have just used a cam follower to position the seats and then they could still recline on the lift. But what do I know? And yes, I think the B&M seat is needlessly complex, too.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I had originally thought there would be a manual "ramp" or sorts. Why not use a slotted track to control the pitch of the car, like Arrow uses a 4th rail on their 4-D's? Use the slot to raise and lower, and have a power trigger to lock/unlock the gau (The pin that locks the car in the flying possition).

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Jes
JesLive.Com
Six Flags Worlds Of Adventure Ride-Ops Crew 2002-2003!
Cedar Point Raptor Crew 2004! (Find me, and win a prize!)

Why? Because... uh... just because. Too simple?

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- John
I Snap Flyers

Jes: That's exactly how I would have done it. The B&M would be even simpler...as the train approaches the station, drive the locking pin out, and let a damper control the descent speed of the seat.

I think engineers just don't think of the simple solutions anymore. :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I guess the only drawback to this idea we share is that if that pin doesn't disngage before it hits the ramp, the train would get jammed.

Also, with the Inverted B&M Model, if that pin pulls out before it his a ramp, the car will bow down uncontrolled. I guess it's not to much of a challenge to overcome these problems, but still alot of things to think about with that method. Including the fact that I just patented it ;).

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Jes
JesLive.Com
Six Flags Worlds Of Adventure Ride-Ops Crew 2002-2003!
Cedar Point Raptor Crew 2004! (Find me, and win a prize!)

The way I'd do it on the B&M, there wouldn't be a cam for bringing the seat back down. Just a snubbing cylinder kind of like the one on the sucker rod of Kennywood's Flying Coaster ("Kangaroo"). Pop the pin, and the seat gently pivots down. That way the cam can be one-sided for taking the seat up again, and a detector on the pin would trigger a go/no-go switch on the lift so that the ride would stop if the seat were not locked in place.

See? It's not that tough! :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Isn't that a lot like how the Zamperla Volare models? They have a track which contacts guide wheels making the bottom of the cars go up and down, at least I believe that's how it works (going off the video at www.canadaswonderland.com).

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Cedar Point, the new happiest place on earth!
2003 coaster lap count:70
Dragster Launches:2

Has anyone noticed those train-length bars that push down to raise the seat? The other option is to have a "natural" position for the train in the prone position and have a rail in the station adjust the position of the seats(not all that much different than X)

enfynet, which ride are you talking about? B&M's flying coaster (Superman at Great America, for instance) has the kind of rail you describe, and I think Stealth did as well (now Borg). But X-Flight does not have a mechanical rail to set the seat position; it uses hydraulics on the train actuated by an electrical system on the track.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Yea, I was referring to the B&M model. Instead of "popping out the pin" which could be disasterous in mid-ride, just have that rail be shaped to lower the cars as they move into the station.

X-Flight is way too complex for it's own good.

Vekoma gave up on the hill recline when motors kept blowing with all the power being used, that and some cars werent locking down cause the ride to stop. However, being one of the few to actually get to ride it reclining on the hill, it is an experience that definetly adds to the ride, and if it can ever be worked out, should be implemented.

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GL rides sup 2004

I'd like it just because you're on a negative incline when reclined in the station, your head the lowest point on your body. Not comfortable.

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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - My Blog
Blogs, photo albums - CampusFish
What time does the water show start?

Wow X-Flight, how long did that last reclining on the lift hill?

It never operate like that to the public, only a few mornings in 01. Its a relatively simple comuter program to switch, so they would switch it early in the morning work on it, then switch it back about 30mins before we opened.

Jeff, prior to the 01 season during some commercial shoots we had to lay in that position for almost 30min while they adjusted cameras to get the shots they wanted, talk about a blood rush. Also I got stuck on it one time outside the station but before the lift for 45mins in the rain, a Lull was called in to push it on the chain, it was before the chain and after the booster wheels, we didnt budge. All thanks to an accidental E-Stop.

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GL rides sup 2004

I doubt you'd see the Arrow Dance gone from Double Loop. In some cases it's quicker to manually release the restraints then to have them hydraulically released.

I think I rode X-Flight back in '02 (my only trip to SFWoA) and it was a unique experience. I'm not going to act like I know the ins and out of those trains because from the sounds of it there's too much to them. I remember an employee getting yelled at because he was working as hard as he could to move quickly up and down. I think there's a problem there. If this ride can somehow get 2 trains to work simultaneously, that should be an accomplishment in it's self.

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2003 Super Screw Crew

I was yelled at a couple times by maintainence for what I thought was "Going to fast." In reality, it's that they don't want you slamming down the foot-pedals, or slamming the lap bars closed. Needless to say, you have to find other ways to go faster. For instance, checking 3 seats per row was always fastest for me. The operator on the other side of the train would engage the lock, and I'd run down the side, leaving him the one seat on his end to close.

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Jes
JesLive.Com
Six Flags Worlds Of Adventure Ride-Ops Crew 2002-2003!
Cedar Point Raptor Crew 2004! (Find me, and win a prize!)

Exactly Jes, sometimes that ride would go down because ops trying to speed up would slam either the locking footpedal or the lap bar and screw up the computer or the lock itself. Very very sensitive that ride is. Sometimes we had to slow down because we were to rough with the ride. Sucks when you're trying to actually speed up to the wait, but i guess its better keeping the ride open, with a few extra mins of wait time, these are some thing CF maintence will find out with this lovely Vekoma POS.

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GL rides sup 2004