Working for Intamin/B&M

If you want to be realistic, a few dozen people, at most, do roller coaster design work. That's not crushing any dreams, that's just the reality of it. I'm good friends with a guy who made it, and I think a lot of the reason he is where he is has to do with his business sense beyond engineering. That's how special you need to be.

[quote]Ffej said:

Took the words out of my mouth. I tested out of Calc 1 & 2, having taken the AP tests. I sailed through Calc 3, feeling confident.

Then, the classes you mentioned knocked me down to or below the level of those remaining in the program. Of course it depends much on the professors, but most of mine believed that a 2.0 C should be the average in the class. When you're fighting to beat those odds with a class of highly refined students, there are many times you'll ask yourself, "Why am I doing this? Am I really going to use this? Do I really WANT to use this?"

Yeah, it really is not the calculus that is the hard part, it is everything else. For example, this semester I just finally took Dynamics... A level 200 class for sophomores (I am finishing up junior year) I was avoiding due to who has been teaching it. Sadly, this professor is one of the worst you will ever experience, with exams near impossible in the time allowed, closed everything, theory based exams (text won't help you), etc... But I could not wait any longer to hold off on the class.

The average on exam 1 for the class? 18/40... Last semester it was 12/40... Exam 2 and Exam 3 averaged at 19 for both. Sadly, we had a large group of "smarties" who really did, ruin the curve for many of us. Half the class are students taking it a second time from getting an "F" the semester before. It really is brutal. Yet my level 300 classes and many other advanced offerings I have no problem getting a B or A in... Yet my grade just posted today for Dynamics with a "D"... Bummer. We are allowed two D's, which I already have (Statics and Differential Equations...) both more due to instructor reasoning for the grades. Especially statics, as strength of materials and machine design I took after (I would call them "Statics 2" and "Statics 3") I got a B+ and A in... Yet a D in statics... So I will be taking statics in spring to make up one of my D's... I will NOT take Dynamics again though, that is for sure. Such a terrible, terrible class. Sad too, because the material itself is not bad, just the instructor was beyond terrible.

You will find in College, instructors are everything. You have fair ones, excellent ones and ones you should avoid at all costs. Like my dynamics teacher. Sadly, I had to take that class now to move forward. Next semester will be pretty tough with Applied Thermodynamics, Kinematics and Vibrations... All of which are tough, but should not be nearly as bad as Dynamics. As sad as that is.

The thing is, even though I struggle at times due to the material or professors, I enjoy the field. The stuff I learn interests me and although I am not the best, "A+" student, you don't need to be. The funny thing is, the longer you are in engineering school, you notice more and more students doing just what they can to get by with just a C in every class. You have the small group who do extremely well, but it is far and few inbetween. Our motto? Maximize partial credit and stay around the average :)

If you enjoy engineering, go for it. It is a great field with plenty of opportunity. Expect to struggle hard though, either with material or professors. But as long as you enjoy it in the end, that is all that matters.

Oh and one more note, as far as studying goes I find it quite funny. I have to work harder at my gen-ed's study time wise then my engineering classes. Because they are so math based, as long as you have a good foundation and understanding, you can get by without much hardcore studying. I maybe spend an hour or two each week all semester total studying... At least for the classes this semester (Dynamics, Machine Design, Instrumentation's Lab, Electrical Circuits). It really was not bad. My GPA is at a 3.0 with 140+ credit hours total, so my grades are quite good. I think it is far fetched to say you will be studying so many hours every night though, unless you really want straight A's... I am not one of them though!

BRcoastrpsycho34 said:
I don't mean to be a "Debbie Downer," but major in Business MGMT or something else... Engineering is too hard and you will not be able to enjoy your experience in college. You will be studying 24/7 and will be stressed out all the time. And someone stated before that it's tough to get a job in the Amusement industry unless you wanna sell cotton candy or fetch basketballs at the 3 Point Challenge... Just sayin man...

This is the single worst piece of advice ever given on these forums. Choose a major based on your skills and future goals. Not based on what will be the least amount of work. College will last 4-5 years (engineering is often a 4.5 or 5 year program because of the co-ops) but can be a big factor on how you enjoy your life experience.

Krafty said:

This is the single worst piece of advice ever given on these forums. Choose a major based on your skills and future goals. Not based on what will be the least amount of work. College will last 4-5 years (engineering is often a 4.5 or 5 year program because of the co-ops) but can be a big factor on how you enjoy your life experience.

Not to mention I was just hearing statistics about how many business majors are out of work too because SO many people though oh business is less work and they always need more of them so the market is so flooded that nobody wants them. Sure it's easier than becoming a coaster engineer, but in this day and age, even business isn't a safe bet, you'll have risk in almost every field, except for nursing at the moment, nursing just keeps sucking in more and more people and the need is still growing.

^^ Agreed.

Business is becoming a "wash" degree, much like anything with the arts or music. Unless you have a really clear passion, niche idea or know exactly what your doing with your degree, it wont do much for you. Engineering degrees are much more in-demand and placement is quite easier because you are more versatile. Not only can you do complex problem solving and analysis, you will be able to do 3D modeling, accounting and many other things.

A business degree will land you a nice standard job though, depending on the market. My cousin got his bachelors in business from a great private university and it took him a while to get a job (in insurance) and struggles a bit with money due to commission based salary. He currently handles a side job as well. You generally do not require that in engineering. Salary is often really good across all the disciplines.

Any degree is better then none though. But certain ones will make things much easier/harder for you later on job wise. Getting my interns/coops have been so easy, I barely even try. In fact, two of them were basically handed to me. Even in this terrible job market the past few years.

I often thought about how easy it would have been doing business, accounting, etc... But in the end, I would be left with very little interest in the subject and most likely a job I would not like. At least with my engineering degree I will have endless options. My top drive now is currently in aerospace with boeing/airbus/lockheed martin. Two of my internships have worked with those companies directly making product for them, so that is a good start at least.

I still though would love to work with a coaster company, such as GCI... But we will see if that opportunity ever presents itself down the road :) Highly unlikely, though.

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in any particular major. I'm certainly not doing what I studied, and couldn't have known at the time that I wouldn't want to do it long-term.

You are planning almost exactly what I hoped to do.

I did finish with my BSME and it really wasn't as hard as most people try and make it out to be, especially if you like math and physics.

I can admit that my future chances of working in the amusement industry are slim, but it is still worth going for. You may also be surprised, once you get into all the classes and even out into the work force, that you can enjoy working with things not roller coaster related if you find the math and work interesting.

So I say go for it, and a masters, and enjoy it no matter what. Which I think you will.

josh88 said:

JD83 said:
If you set your mind to it, bust your butt off and never ever give up, you WILL succeed. Wether you want to be a astronaut or a coaster designer, you CAN do it it you work for it and never ever give up!!!!

All successfull people were told they couldn't make it. Thankfully they did not listen to the sceptics :)

That's really not great advice, you have to keep some realism in there. Sure if you do that you'll absolutely have BETTER chances of going far because you won't let things keep you down, but just because you worked hard doesn't guarantee you'll ever get to work as a coaster designer. It's naive to assume that just because you want it you will get it. I work hard and don't give up and NASA isn't knocking on my door.

NASA does not knock on doors. I have a few friends who work at NASA as engineers, they busted their butts to get there foot in the door. No one will hand anyone a job no matter what degree you have. It's all about persistence, having the right attitude an making a great impression. Of course you also need the skills but that is just one part of the puzzle.
Let's not forget if you look back in history every single success story such as Edison, Tesla,Ford, Jobbs, Gates, Buffett, Disney and so on, had tons of detractors and believed they would fail and never be successfully. Fortunately they did not listen to the pessimists and they went on to changing history. I believe one can achieve almost any goal if they work hard and never give up and never expect someone to hand them the opportunity. One has to find it and go
Run After the opportunity.

Business Manager Degree-WORTHLESS (unless in addition to another major)

Ask any manager in any company. Business degerees are nice to have for promotions but you need something you can use for the actual job. For example, lets say P&D at Cedar Point. Rob Decker needs business scence so they know how much something will cost vs how much it will bring in, but without architecture he could not do his job.

A PHD in RCT3 from Chris Sawyer University would be a great start.

However, by the time you get it, the simulation software they are using for Luminosity will be so advanced, CF will just enter the # of Millions of dollars they want to spend, and the program will render your training useless.

The curent version they are working on even calculates the frustration levels on the faces of those not in the fastpass line.

BTW, does Fastpass get you unobstructed views of Luminosity or is that planned for next year?

JD83 said:

NASA does not knock on doors.

No kidding? I was being facetious. I agree that with hard work and drive you can go far, but if you look at the reality of it, you've got a list of a handful of people (primarily white men if you want to get into the demographics of it) and for all the people who you can name who were the pioneers and had breakthrough successes there are hundreds if not thousands of people who had the same idea and drive and failed. I'm not saying it can't happen I'm just saying that in this country it is the exception.

That's the truth and reality, it doesn't mean you should still try, just don't put all your eggs in one basket and convince your self you'll succeed no matter what, because if and when you fail you may not be able to recover. There are tons of people with a dream that bankrupt themselves and never are able to recover. You've just got to be sensible and realistic, which also helps when running a business.

Engineering of some type will probably end up being my major in college. I just love that topic, and I have always enjoyed designing roller coasters, airplanes, and those types of things. Of course they're just mediocre drawings and simulations created by a high school student, but I have lots of fun doing it and am proud of what I was able to think up. Once again, thanks for all the tips and I'll continue to work hard in order to do something in this field, roller coaster engineering hopefully haha.

Krafty said:

BRcoastrpsycho34 said:
I don't mean to be a "Debbie Downer," but major in Business MGMT or something else... Engineering is too hard and you will not be able to enjoy your experience in college. You will be studying 24/7 and will be stressed out all the time. And someone stated before that it's tough to get a job in the Amusement industry unless you wanna sell cotton candy or fetch basketballs at the 3 Point Challenge... Just sayin man...

This is the single worst piece of advice ever given on these forums. Choose a major based on your skills and future goals. Not based on what will be the least amount of work. College will last 4-5 years (engineering is often a 4.5 or 5 year program because of the co-ops) but can be a big factor on how you enjoy your life experience.

That's your opinion... I have my own... He has a choice and I was stating my own personal opinion. I didn't mean for it to come out as advice. After reading what I wrote I understand what you are saying though... I just didn't write down what I was thinking correctly.

My friends and I have done very well for ourselves as Business majors. The market for young professionals in Richmond, VA is pretty rich. So I guess it just depends on where you live too.

If anyone is thinking about moving... Richmond is cheap, tons of jobs, and you have Kings Dominion and Busch Gardens right in your backyard! Only problem, 10 hour drive to CP :-( I miss you MF!!!

Here is a link and some quotes from articles that you may find useful on your path! I also pasted some various other links to good articles and books available on the subject towards the bottom of this post.

http://ccr.mcgraw-hill.com/2011/10/27/civil-engineer-roller-coaster-designer/

"Civil Engineer: Roller Coaster Designer

Education and Training
Most jobs in the field require a bachelor’s degree in engineering.
It is helpful to get a strong science and math background in high school.
Roller coaster designers need computer modeling skills.

It can be important to have a marketing and sales background, along with good communication skills and ability to work within a team.

Earnings
Median annual wages for civil engineers are $74,600, or about $36 per hour.

Job Prospects
While job prospects for civil/structural engineers are very strong, roller coaster design jobs are extremely scarce.

Candidates who demonstrate early interest and enthusiasm (learning about the field and getting to know people in the field) are likely to have an edge in the market.
Internships are valuable.

Job Duties
Working with team members and client to create preliminary computer models of coasters Visiting site to help finalize blueprints and scale model Staying on site to oversee construction and make on-the-fly adjustments to coasters Being present prior to opening rides to do final testing, resolve problems, and answer technical questions.

Working Conditions
Much of work time is spent in an office working on a computer.
Workers may have to travel to work sites during development and construction.
Examining construction details and helping to test a new coaster may be physically demanding and even dangerous.

Jeff Pike, Roller Coaster Designer:

Jeff Pike has always loved roller coasters. “I grew up around amusement parks in Cincinnati,” he says. “When I was in third grade, my dad told me roller coasters were designed by engineers. From that moment, I wanted to become an engineer.”
He worked toward this dream energetically, reading books and articles about coasters. He researched roller coaster companies, wrote letters to them, and got some responses.
During high school, he joined a national club called American Coaster Enthusiasts. Members met at parks, rode coasters, and brought in speakers. “I attended the meetings from the fifth grade up,” Jeff says.
In high school and college, he wrote more letters, attended trade shows, and introduced himself to people there. He got an internship in California with a company that made big steel coasters. People in the field got to know him.
Five months before Jeff finished his engineering degree, a wooden coaster company called him with a job offer. He was able to accept the job and finish his degree, too, by taking some courses near his work and on the Internet. Today, he is Vice President for Sales and Design for the same company, Great Coasters International.

A Favorite Project:

“We built a coaster in Finland,” he says, “the northernmost coaster in the world. The buyer was a Finn who was a self-made billionaire. He wanted to be involved in every step of the process and even came to the job site wearing a tool belt. Together, we made a great coaster.”
To see the coaster, go to http://www.greatcoasters.com/?p=projects&id=9 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6zIDqH_1CI.

Roller Coaster Careers:

“If you want to design roller coasters,” Jeff advises, “do what I did.” Be persistent in learning about the field and meeting people. Study math and science.
Jeff also invites you to visit Great Coasters International. “I’m looking for kids with desire and fire,” he says.

http://www.greatcoasters.com

Here is a great link to a article about S&S Engineer and how he got his "Dream" job!
http://innovations.coe.berkeley.edu/vol3-issue1-jan09/jacobi

Also check out: http://www.coaster101.com/
And for a good book in the field on Roller Coaster design:

Check out:
Theme Park Design: Behind The Scenes With An Engineer
Steve Alcorn
http://amzn.com/1456309722

And
Coasters 101
An Engineering Guide to Roller Coaster Design
Authored by Nick Weisenberger
https://www.createspace.com/3737443

Roller Coaster by David Bennett
http://amzn.com/1854106325

Here is a current posting for a current Job offer from S&S:

Electrical Engineer

Description
Electrical Engineer with Bachelor’s Degree (MSEE preferred) in Electrical Engineering from accredited institution and minimum of five years professional experience. P.E. license preferred; experience with Allen-Bradley controls systems required. Competitive salary and excellent benefits offered.