Windseeker Mechanical Questions

I just started thinking about this and was wondering if any one had any further intel on the mechanics of the ride. It seems that all mechanical parts are inside the tower, but just wondering what is used? Chains, cables, hydraulics, or a combination of those and/or other methods to raise and spin the carriage?

I haven't seen this explained anywhere....

My guess is that the gondola spins by drive wheels much like most flat rides. And KI's coverage of their Windseekers shows that the gondola is lifted by a large hydraulic (or maybe electric, Im not entirely sure) motor. We'll see the motor first before the tower goes up.

You can see the motor (that Adam was talking about) in this photo from KI. http://www.visitkingsisland.com/_upload/galleries/windseeker_photo_...2111_2.jpg

i have a question if for some reason the ride malfunctions how would they get people off if it got suck in middle or at the top since the seats are 2 deep

There's probably 1 or more fail safes in case of emergencies. What I want to know and see is just what the failsafe is in case of a cable snap. I'm thinking there's something that allows the gondola to drop slowly to the ground just in case.

They might use the same fail safe as power tower where if one or more cables snap the other intact cables can safely handle the extra load brought on from the cable(s) snapping and allowing the ride safely come down.

And anyway, the important thing is it's not an Intamin.

^^ Bingo. I think most if not all cable-dependent rides are designed so that if one cable fails, the others will keep it from crashing/failing/etc.

All the cables are going to be inside the tower anyways right? So we don't have to worry about or feet. Not that I would anyways.

Well, I see a few things possibly...Don't quote me on anything but these are just what I think

1. Looking at the webcam at KI, the side has silver strips on it. These may be LIM's. These could be a safety feature to prevent the gondola from dropping to the ground, same principle as the LIM's on Maverick for preventing a rollback (see youtube vid if you haven't)

2. Most things that use cables are all fail safe. Even elevators are made this way. All cables are made so that even just one cable can support the weight of the cart. If all else fails, there is some sort of clutch type mechanism, so if it drops too quick, it engages, and snags the cable so that it stops dead in it's tracks as soon as it goes to quick.

3. I think the motor is electric based. The only few reasons I can say so are: Wicked Twister is next door, which uses enough power already, so the power required to run a motor of this size is already in the area. With hydraulics, having to constantly keep that much hydraulic fluid pressurized, and then pumped through the system. Also, just my guess, it'd take alot more space than what the motor's size really seems to look like. Plus in a failsafe situation. Keeping a reserve amount of power to keep the ride safe, it would be easier to keep it running via electric to an electric motor (Millennium's lift hill) versus powering the pumps for a hydraulic motor to keep all of that fluid pressurized.

Again, just my hypothesis, not sure truly how it operates. While I'm up on point on April 2nd, and then this season when I'm working there I plan on figuring out as much as I can on this ride & more. I'm a big kinda how it works, engineer, kinda person, so this is one of my missions this summer lols...

If I'm wrong on anything, put me in my place haha

I think those strips are either guides for the gondola, electrical contacts for the drive motors that rotate the carriage/gondola, or some kind of guide/shield for the cable. If you look at this image, the silver strips seem to be just extruded steel (perhaps galvanized). So it could be a multitude of things. But IMO, I don't think they're LIMs or LSMs.

And I'm pretty sure Millenniums lift motor is hydraulic. Though I'm gonna have to agree that Windseeker's motor seems to be electrical based. Though that doesn't mean that a powerful yet small hydraulic motor wouldn't be out of the norm. They can easily pump hydraulic fluid from a short distance, into the engine. In this case, the Para sail/jet ski/engine room building. Plus I think they can manually release pressure on a hydraulic motor in case of a midair hiccup. Though that's a complete guess as far as my knowledge of hydraulic motors goes.

We'll just have to wait and see for sure as things develop. Perhaps we can ask some questions at the PB tour and get some answers. SO Bryan, Becca, or anyone else at Cedar Point who reads these forums, be prepared with an answer. ;)

See I see the ones in front. If you look on the side next to the ladder there are more large fins. These were the ones I was referring to. The ones you see right up front, I actually saw those, and I didn't have any clue as to what those were. I actually saw those as possible guides for the gondola's journey up, or else temporary metal plates for shipment to be taken out later (I didn't notice these in the CGI rendering).

As for millennium I think it's electric based. I could be wrong. Only speculation as to why is that on the last track piece on the lift hill, it speeds up dramatically. With hydraulics I would imagine the pressure would have to increase incredibly. These are all yet again hunches...I know nothing about these rides. Like I said, I want to find out as much as I can while I work there this summer, and get info and maybe pics/ect. to all of you during/post season if allowed.

Also, just looking at the above posts. What do you mean as to wheels to move the gondola? Are these in contact with the tower, or static motors that spin and turn the gondola (like the wheels that move a ferris wheel). If that is the case, where does the actual gondola come into contact with the cabling, ect. that lifts it into the air? Grr I hate having an engineering mind

Haha, it's always fun to talk mechanics when it comes to rides.:)
I too noticed a difference in size and look in the...let's call them "thingies" on KI's WindSeeker. I'm almost sure the other thingy you see isn't an LIM or LSM because of its shape. It looks nothing like any LSM or LIM that I've ever seen. LSMs(which I think would be the preferred form of propulsion over LIMs) are usually a single or double white "bar(s)" that use earth magnets to generate a current that the calipers on the train passes over and propel the train. These are some examples.
ex:1
ex:2

So taking that into consideration, we should be able to rule out LSM's. It's also another thing to note that these thingies are put on after shipment and just before the section are hoisted into place. They don't want them damaged after all:).
And upon taking a closer look at this pic of KI's WS, you can very clearly see the drive motors I've mentioned that make the gondola/carriage rotate. And since there's no easy way of getting those to work without some crazy kind of wiring deal, the logical conclusion is that they're run by electrical contacts.

It's the same idea behind how the bridge cranes run at the shop where I work. There's the crane that runs on a track and hoists that can lift over 10 tons. There's these strips that run the entire length of the track and there's contacts that touch the strips and connect to an electrical box on the crane itself that power the motors that move the crane on the track and make the hoists run. When we switch the power on, we can then operate it with the controller.

So my best guess is that the larger of the thingies is the electrical contact that runs the motors and the other thingy (which is present on both sides opposite of each other) is some kind of guide for the frame that the cables and motors are attached to. That frame can also be seen in the rendering and is a gray color. You can also see the guide wheels on the gray frame. So yes, this is working A LOT like a ferris wheel....just turned 90°.

And as for Millenniums lift motor. I'm 99% sure it's hydraulic because you can see the hydraulic motor (the same as seen on Dragster) that spins the cable drum. Here's a good look at it just for reference. And the pressure increases are most definitely doable with a hydraulic motor considering that Dragster's launch relies on fluctuating amounts of extreme pressure through these motors.;) That's also why Dragster has 32 of them. The more motors, the easier it is to propel a multi ton train.

TheDevarious said:
2. Most things that use cables are all fail safe. Even elevators are made this way. All cables are made so that even just one cable can support the weight of the cart. If all else fails, there is some sort of clutch type mechanism, so if it drops too quick, it engages, and snags the cable so that it stops dead in it's tracks as soon as it goes to quick.

Almost right on the elevators. The overspeed brake on an elevator grips the guide track for the elevator car. If a free fall happens, or if the car just travels above a certain speed, the brake caliper engages on the guide track to stop the car.

I'm going to start by saying I know very little about ride engineering or engineering in general, but I do have a great fascination with it. that being said, from the beginning seeing those "thingies" on Windseeker I had assumed they were like a "third rail" like you would find in a subway system. That seems a logical way to run power to the gondola and seat locks.

Well...if this is how power is delivered, what failsafe mechanisms either keep power to the gondola, ect...or would it stop spinning/slowly descend in a gradual controlled manner? Ugh...this weekend cannot come soon enough...So many questions

My guess is that the failsafe would be that the gondola would (obviously) stop and the lift motor would have some kind of brake that kicks on in a power problem and gradually lowers the riders.

I was thinking more along the lines of the ride staying put during a power failure and having an emergency storage compartment in each seat. It would contain emergency rations so a person could survive for days without needing to come down. :-)

In the event of a water landing, your tandem rider compartment can be used as a bulky, confining and escape-proof, non-flotation device...

Looking at the KI photo linked above, it looks like they are putting a large winding drum at the bottom of the tower. That means one of two things. Either that is a winding drum similar to that used on Millennium Force or Dragster...or for that matter, RipCord...so that the entire load of the gondola is hoisted by the drive motor, or that is not, in fact, a winding drum, but merely a drive sheave. If that is the case, then there would be multiple wire ropes that pass around that drum. In that case the ropes would be looped around the sheave and go up to a counterweight attached near the top of the tower, then back down to the gondola on the outside of the tower. I can't tell from that view. I'm not sure that I see a motor on that assembly; in the photo it almost looks like a large brake assembly on the right-hand side of the drum.

I, for one, am planning to learn more about this ride in the not so distant future...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.