Will long distance trave to CP decrease?

Ah, I won't be worrying about gas, since I'm in Canada and we're getting raped more than you guys up here.

wow - should try and by "GAS" in the UK 87p a litre - about $1.60 a litre - ok our litres are a litte different in size but we just buy more sensible cars...sometimes.

Anyway we're hiring a gas guzzling SUV for my trip in July from San Fran - NYC via Cedar Point ... so that should help your economy a bit!

James- UK

All this talk about Htdrogen...what about Bio fuels?

Bio Diesel and Ethanol are both made from completely homegrown renewable resources, corn and soybeans, most new Ford cars will already drive on 85% ethanol.

This is technology that we can implement today and not worry about our foreign dependancy on oil. Plus it puts more money in the hands of farmers.

I really don't understand why this is not pushed.

I think Hydrogen is definitely the way to go in the future...but what about until then?

Read up on bio fuels... the cost in producing them is so astronomically high that it's not even on the radar of being practical, nor would it ever yield enough to meet demand.

There's a great article on nuke power with sidebars about alternatives here:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.02/nuclear.html?pg=1

And Allan... if an extra few bucks in fuel is going to stop anyone from driving three hours each way to an amusement park, they've got bigger problems.

Did you know they can make a small nuclear reactor (similar to a submarines) that will last twenty years at the end of that time they can fill with concrete to make perfectly safe to dispose of.It would be about the size of your standard two car garage.(just the vessel not the cooling towers and assorted power generating stuff)There is a report the stock market got this week that oil could go over 100.00 a barrel. That could mean 5.00 to 6.00 a gallon gas in the next couple of years.Hydrogen is a good alternative because the only output is water but if the energy to make it come from burning oil in generating plants we are still depending on oil.Hybreds are a good step because they use less oil but they still use oil. What if we drilled a large Hole somewere (if we can get approved) inject water when it comes back as steam use it to make hydrogen.The only output of this plant would be hot water you need to cool before returning to a local stream or river.

I know I that in my case, I will still make my annual roadtrip to Cedar Point. Since it is a 13 hour drive from my house, I almost always stay several days. Actually, this year my Bachelor Party will be at Cedar Point over the Labor Day weekend. There will be at least 5 of us going this year, so we will just split the cost of gas.

As usual, I will buy my Worlds of Fun season pass here in KC to save a few bucks. Worlds of Fun is only about 10 minutes from my house so I will be going there quite often. I can actually see the 200 foot lift hill on the Mamba while driving home from work.

From what i've gathered its the fuel cell technology that is a bigger problem than the production of hydrogen.

"Hydrogen can be separated from hydrocarbons through the application of heat—a process known as reforming. Currently, most hydrogen is made this way from natural gas."

http://www.nrel.gov/clean_energy/hydrogen.html

if you look around it doesn't seem that many are to concerned about the viability of hydrogen as an alternative to oil. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, however i can't help but wonder why there isn't a bigger push to move in this direction. Also i'm not one for federal handouts for the super-rich, but i wouldn't mind an economic shove in the form of incentives that would bring about faster change and give some companies a reason to reach out and be the first to really commit.

This is technology that we can implement today and not worry about our foreign dependancy on oil. Plus it puts more money in the hands of farmers.

I really don't understand why this is not pushed.

I think Hydrogen is definitely the way to go in the future...but what about until then?

Simple answer...Bush is in oil.It wouldnt be to his financial advantage.

And Jeff...I don't drive 3 Hrs to an amusement park.I drive 8 hours each way and use approx 45 gallons.When I was working,it was totally different,but retirement has a different reality. Just wait.The cost of visiting CP for me isnt just the price of gas.Remember, we have to sleep somewhere.The cost of the cheapest motels during the summer, are in the neighborhood of $80-$90 per night.Having fun is expensive.There's the food ,the admission etc.The gas prices are just the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back.Most people dont have infinite finances,so the gas prices MIGHT affect them.Im not suggesting that they shouldnt go to CP,Im just curious if they would change any travel plans.Geezz Jeff..are you being obtuse?

*** Edited 4/3/2005 4:34:15 PM UTC by Allan Birmantas sr***

Chris,I really didn't mean to imply that an annual trip would be affected.I was speaking more of people who make several long trips to CP.I will make one trip and spend a few extra days,regardless what the gas costs.It would ,in my case,and I can only speak for myself,eliminate the 4-5 trips I'm used to.Maybe we'll make the trip once or maybe twice.

Have a safe trip,it is the one place that is worth the drive.

Also take in to account that a substantial portion of what you pay at the pump in any country is taxes, local state and federal. It can be anywhere from 30 to 50 percent of what you pay.

What about the other nuclear power, fusion? Now I'm not an expert but from the little I've read this has the potential to output huge amounts of electrical energy. We just need to figure out how to make it work with less power needed. I know it won't happen tomorrow or for 10 years but I can see this being the true future of fuel and power (if the UN doesn't completely outlaw all nuclear anything which if they get enough power they might!)

The problem with fusion is sustaining a reaction. They can maintain it for very short periods of time at best. After you get the fusion process, there is the art of controlling that much energy and heat. Luckily with Fusion there isn't a risk of nuclear runoff and meltdown, but simply thermal runoff. There isn’t the environmental concern, but there still is the risk of damaging hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment.

That and the U.S. dropped their Fusion program years ago.

Fill a car up and split the cost.

This year like last year. Me and my dad will make 2 trips, One in May and the other in Aug.

I believe this thread was is attendance figures at our favorite park impacted with respect to rising energy cost. The answer may not be as intuitive as we believe considering that CF is used to hedge some energy stocks. Not everyone going to CP thinks the same way as us enthusiasts. The belief is as energy costs rise people have less disposable income and would rather take the family trip to CP instead of Disney or <insert expensive destination resort here>. Even if you decided to forgo the plane fair and cut corners on the family vacation by driving the 1200 miles from Michigan to Disney, at $3.50 per gallon in a 20MPG vehicle, you are still paying over $450 for the trip. That is before paying for admission and hotel. Many people opt for the less costly alternative, a trip to CP if they are residing in the Midwest. We forget the CP really is a regional park, not quite a destination park. Historically, when energy prices rise CP attendance actually increases. Unfortunately if we see the “super spike” many economists are predicting, who knows how CP will be effected when oil is $130/barrel. Operations cost may be adversely effected.

As for nuclear fuel and the hydrogen economy, there is no doubt that nuclear is where we need to be predominantly for environmental and strategic interests. Considering the impact hydrocarbons do a little nuclear by-product is an equitable trade off, and the technology is compatible with our antiquated centralized power distribution model. Nuclear is not going to happen in the US because of the prevalent NIMBY attitude in American culture. Nuclear works great in Europe for electricity, though. People are scared of things they do not understand, and of processes which may unlikely harm them yet they cannot see or touch. We have many more fundamental problems than nuclear or hydrogen. Even if there were net energy positive methods of harvesting hydrogen (and there are), where are the distribution channels? What vehicle are you going to put it in? What electric plant will burn it? Ok, so you convinced me to buy a hydrogen car, but I am not going to accept having to fuel up every 50 miles even in the most efficient anhydrous metal storage vessels. The technology just is not there yet and the infrastructure is further behind.

-j

Jmen, It seems like you get the point of this thread.Thank you.

I guess you vote that there will be little change.I disagree, at least for people who drive long distances.(you do seem to be in the majority)

Have a great summer at CP.
*** Edited 4/5/2005 11:07:38 PM UTC by Allan Birmantas sr***

When I worked at the Point it was during the early 1970's. I remember the first energy/gas crisis of 1973/74. Earky in 74 gas was in short supply, and when you did find it, the price was double of what it had been a few months before. I remember that there was much concern about that season, not so much about the price of gas, but it's availabilty. If the station tanks are full, people will buy it, what ever it costs. They will cut back on other things, or go deeper in debt, but they will come.

I agree with jmen. As gas prices continue to soar it will prompt families in the area to stay closer to home- C.P. may be the vacation of choice for some this year, as opposed to loading up the car and driving to Florida or Myrtle.

If, however, attendance figures are indeed down for parks this year, they will at least have something to blame it on besides crappy weather.

I heard on CNN today that 57% of Americans say that the cost of gas is putting them in a financial hardship right now. I didn't realize how bad it really was until I had to fill up tonight. I'm gonna have to start putting more hours in at work if I hope to get to CP as many times this year as I did last year.