Why did everyone hate Dick Kinzel?

I think it would be really cool to paint the High Heel Draqueen silver... maybe silver and light blue. Or silver and white or something...

The McDonald's color scheme has never really sat well with me.

(edit - and just my 2 cents @Dick Kinzel. I really don't think that many people *hate* him. CP is still one of the best run thrill parks in the world. I do miss my classic Blue Streak, but other than that... well, I could complain about how the operations and capacities used to be *so much better* - but still... Go to a Six Flags park (with perhaps the exception of Great America) and see how fast you appreciate the work that goes into Cedar Point. Actually... now that I think about it, I *very strongly dislike* the closing of Geauga Lake, and the removal of Laser from Dorney, but I digress.)

0g said:
Millennium Force and Dragster have had plenty of attention to keep them running. A lot of the niceties have been removed from those rides.

Here is a list of the "special effects" that were included when the ride opened, but since removed. This list is not meant to be comprehensive by any means. Just what I can think of off the top of my head.

Magnum: Fog in the last tunnel
Raptor: Strobe lights on the cobra roll
Millennium Force: Lights on the lift hill (only being improved this year with Luminosity), projectors with the "M" logo in the station
Power Tower: Lighting not in sink.
Maverick: Water Bombs turned off, LEDs in the tunnel
Dragster: Fog on a train launch, dragster parts on train (OK, this was due to a safety issue, but they could have replaced the real ties with fake lightweight alternative and kept the look)

You can't forget the mess Disaster Transport has gotten into. Also, what happened to Calypso? Didn't that used to have a ton of theming?

About Maverick, I did go once last year when the water bombs were on and I thought the LEDs were on. Not totally sure about the LEDs but I know for sure the water bombs were on.

The LEDs that were in Maverick's tunnel can be found in the Starlight Experience and the water bombs require regular maintenance to keep them working. Since the pond is filled with lake Erie water, algae keeps building up in the mechanical parts, causing them to not work.

Not trying to steer the thread off topic, but I wonder if we'll see much of the old ride themes return, in addition to more theming.

Some things I don't understand at all...like why Maverick's LED lights in the tunnel no longer function (not talking about the semi-understandable story about the fog). That has to be a simple fix...like simply turning the effect on or replacing a sensor / chip. There's no way that the LED's burnt out or that the wiring all melted down.

I hope you're reading this, someone at Cedar Fair. Give us a tweet that Maverick's tunnel effects are getting some maintenance, and you'll have yet another wave of positive cheer and excitement for the park's future.

Edit: I was typing this before TTD posted that comment about Maverick's tunnel lights. So, let me get this straight...Cedar Point removed the lights from Maverick's tunnel and used them for Starlight Experience? Are you serious?

Miss_Maverick07 said:
It was extremely sad what cedar fair let Geauga lake become.

This sentiment bothers me to no end. That park was clean and well-cared for once Cedar Fair bought it. Six Flags allowed an epic level of decay, as indicated by the mess that was Wolf Kabobs and Villain. They rightfully ditched the animal attractions, because they could see, as Busch did many years before when they sought an exit, that it wasn't a sustainable business. Then they rebuilt the water park so that it had plenty of room, without everything on top of each other.

And about the water park, many of you are too young to remember, but Geauga Lake's real "coming out" in the 80's was when The Wave and whatever the wedgies slides were called were installed. That's when it began to really thrive, particularly on its company picnic business. It might have had some rides, but it found its niche as a water park. It only made sense for Cedar Fair to re-emphasize that, and it's a really nice park.

Again, Kinzel's mistake was buying the park in the first place. If it would have been up to me, I would have likely sold the SeaWorld side in its entirety and re-do the water park on the Bainbridge side. I probably would have ditched a few coasters as well and sent them to other parks, to reduce the maintenance cost. Six Flags tried to build something not sustainable there.

When your talking about animals at amusement parks, you have to consider the fact that there are people in this world (PETA) who think caring for animals is forcing animals into "slave labor", and could make running an animal park living hell for Cedar Fair.

Supplementing what I already said about my vision of saving Geauga Lake, why didn't they try something like this, of course with strict Cedar Fair rules / requirements?

The park could have leased out most of the food stands and gift shops to local businesses. This could have been an awesome experiment to try before bulldozing everything down.

A great way to draw all your local customers and keep the park alive would be infusing the blood of Aurora, OH into the park. There has to be a killer pizza, chicken, ribs, etc. place in Aurora. Let them rent out stands / shops, and you could solve many problems.

1. Cedar Fair has a steady income from the stands / shops and then puts the risk on the small businesses. Cedar fair has a written contract that they can kick out any business that doesn't conform to their service standards.

2. The quality of the food in the park is suddenly awesome / unique, and this could draw people from young to old in itself (and draw non-locals).

3. The small businesses all compete with each other and set their own prices, so this could drive down prices while keeping quality high.

4. Cedar Fair's staffing for the park would be greatly cut, while supporting small business and keeping the community employed.

5. Cedar Fair could focus on what they do best: ride operations. Keep Big Dipper and a small collection of good rides (and of course the water park)running, and profit off the gate price, which encompasses this whole new park experience.

Ffej said:So, let me get this straight...Cedar Point removed the lights from Maverick's tunnel and used them for Starlight Experience? Are you serious?

So far that I know. I've tried paying very close attention to the frame in the launch tunnel (not easy) and it does look like the LEDs are not on there.

Wow, that's annoying. Well, if they can install a $6 million light show this year, please Cedar Point, give that back to Maverick and get it working!

Are the lights in the tunnel really needed? Riders are in the tunnel for less than 10 seconds. I feel that the lights don't add anything to the experience. I don't even know why they were installed in the first place. I miss the water bombs however; everybody could see them and they looked awesome.

I don't think the lights from Maverick are in Starlight. The only lights that I can think that would match what used to be there would be the color grazes and those I know are not from Maverick.

They very well could have removed the lights from Maverick but they were not used in Starlight.

Morté615 said:
They very well could have removed the lights from Maverick but they were not used in Starlight.

That is true, the lights from Maverick were not used in Starlight. The lights in Starlight were all bought new for that show.

coolkid said:
Are the lights in the tunnel really needed? Riders are in the tunnel for less than 10 seconds. I feel that the lights don't add anything to the experience.

I agree with this. I never thought they did very much in there. I understand wanting to do something but just the lights were not enough.

As for the water bombs, I saw them on a lot last year. Honestly just about every time I walked by them they were on, which was almost every day.

Maverick00 said:
Also, what happened to Calypso? Didn't that used to have a ton of theming?

Yes, Calypso had a ton of stuff that was removed over the years. The cars even had individual canopies and the center of the ride had a very cool flower like bomb burst light show. To see a picture of Calypso in 1968,go here:

http://www.mary4travel.com/calypso_1968.jpg

Only a car is shown, the center lights are out of the picture unfortunately.

OK, so water bombs wasn't the best example for me to use, but there are still a lot of little things that have disappeared/degraded over the years.

99er said:That is true, the lights from Maverick were not used in Starlight. The lights in Starlight were all bought new for that show.

I've been skeptical as I never really cared to look when passing through Starlight. From my understanding, it was something they added to Starlight the year they "took them from the tunnel". Though I don't really know what kind of LED's were used in the tunnel so it'd be kind of hard to identify them in Starlight anyway.

Have a look at this photo also from 1968. It's not he Cedar Point ride, but it is a similar ride. You see what Cedar Point removed first? They took the tops off he cars, and they removed that giant palm tree structure in the middle. I don't know if there was ever any kind of an incident, but it makes sense in terms of removing anything hanging over the ride that could fall and hit somebody.

Now fast-forward to the removal of the structure in the center of the ride. What does that accomplish? It clears the ride so that an operator in the doghouse at the back of the ride has an unobstructed view of the entire ride. That means no need for a second operator on the midway side of the ride.

In other words there is an identifiable operational reason for the loss of flash on the Calypso. Not just a general decay of the park's appearance.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Here's the CP version:

http://pointbuzz.com/Photos/Photo.aspx?id=1889

It would be nice to see some new lighting and grahpics that wouldn't interfere with the ride operator.

I dont want to say anything more about the calendar, as it would not be appropriate for this site. It did take place at WWK last summer, however.

As for the animals, I know CF doesn't run animal parks, but i miss the seaworld and wildlife. I still think they are better of an addition than the waterpark. that's just my opinion. I loved it when six flags owned it with the rides and animals. CF should have never bought that park.

For the record...

The inclusion of animals at Cedar Point didn't work out. There were dolphin shows, and aquarium, and even Jungle Larry's shows. Today, none still exist and many visitors have no idea they ever did.

Animals didn't pack them in at Geauga Lake either - as the animal park and amusement park were merged together long before Cedar Fair purchased the property to make the destination a better value to the visitor. But even together, they weren't profitable.

Lastly, (I am really dating myself now) at one time there was a separate animal side to Kings Island that even had a monorail. It was also shut down prior to CF owning the park.

And in Sandusky, there was a drive through animal park or two that eventually failed as well.

Now all this comes to one point - is Ohio big enough for three water parks? GL, KI, & CP in the same way all are competing for basically the same market. and just like the animal parks, you have other choices like local Zoo's and Kalahari and Lake Erie if you are inclined to wear a bathing suit or look at wildlife for (at best) three months of the year.

I can see how a water park at CP follows the Disney or Universal model that encourages multi-day, stay-on-our-property visits. But KI and GL don't have hotels. Which makes you wonder - will they get them in the future? Or could the real estate be better used for other endevours?

^Um, Jungle Larry's Safari and the dolphin show at Oceana were very popular and successful. People, and animals, pass on and the park moved on from those days but don't think for a minute they weren't successful for Cedar Point.