"untrimmed rides"

I was poking around at Virtual Midway and reading some of the talking points on various coasters and Scott Short mentioned a few times being lucky enough to get an untrimmed ride. (this was from the Magnum feature: "If you're lucky, you'll get an untrimmed ride.") also in the Gemini feature he mentioned watching to see if the trim light is on or not.

I know what trimmed and untrimmed means, but I didn't know that they would have the trims on one time and not another. How does that work? I figured they would always be on. And also, how does one know when a coaster such as Magnum would be untrimmed to get that improved ride? Is it at the operator's discretion whether or not to have the trims activated? Just curious.

As far as Magnum and Gemini goes.. It's not really "operators discretion".

The trims being applied is based on the time it takes the trains to make thier complete laps. Weather conditions is the main cause. Cold and wet mornings and nights (such as found during Halloweekends) cause the trains to run alot slower.

There are set times that the trains need to make. If they are running in slow, the trims can be turned off or even addjusted on some rides.

Mantis and I believe Meanstreak's trims are actually computer controled and based on data taken from previous trains. Hence why one train on Mantis may have the trims hit on the hill and another one may not but then get hit on the C-block brake run.

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June 11th, 2001 - Gemini 100
VertiGo Rides - 82
Technical Services 2002
Fright Zone Screamster 2002

Good question, jose gringo. The last train on Gemini 100 was untrimmed. It sure does make a huge difference, I think.

Can the operator on Gemini just push a button to disable trims and does he/she have to get permission or answer for why they were disabled ?

Also, if a operator hits the e-stop (emergency stop) button and there is nothing wrong, do they get into trouble.

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Gemini 100
Aaron Radatz Centenial Theater '02
*** This post was edited by Freaky 1/31/2003 11:20:38 AM ***

By the rules of the park as I understand them..

1: There is an adjustable knob on the controls that determine how much "trim" is applied, if at all. They are not supposed to do it without permission.

2: Yes.. hehehe

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June 11th, 2001 - Gemini 100
VertiGo Rides - 82
Technical Services 2002
Fright Zone Screamster 2002

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on Magnum isn't the amount of trim set by maintenance out at the brake, but the off/on switch is in the station. Gemini could be different. All I know is that the trim is manually controlled on those two rides.

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Scott W. Short, Rail Junkie
mailto:scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com

You're right Scott.

When I was talking about the adjustable.. I was refering to his question about Gemini.

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June 11th, 2001 - Gemini 100
VertiGo Rides - 82
Technical Services 2002
Fright Zone Screamster 2002
*** This post was edited by Red Garter Rob 1/31/2003 12:50:07 PM ***

As far as Mantis goes, wasn't the trim on the first drop put in to slow it down as it pulled too many g's..

Yep, your right jose gringo..

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Park Services 98'
Snake River 99'00'
Peanuts ATL 01'
GW/SS/Schwab TL 02'
Kiddy Kingdom TL 03'

Yup, the Magnum trim pressure is set by maintenance out at the brake at the request of the crew who are supposed to time a couple trains every hour. The time from the train dropping off the lift until the time the front of it hits the safety brakes should be around 59-60 seconds. If it it any longer than this, but less than about 62, seconds, we usually called maintenance to have them lower the pressure. If at any point, the ride is running at over 62 seconds, the trim brakes are pulled until they can be adjusted. If they are at their lowest setting already and the ride is still running somewhat slow, they can be left pulled. This usually only happens when there's a wind of more than 20 mph blowing off the lake. Winds coming off the bay do not affect Magnum nearly as much as Raptor.

The trim brakes are also to be pulled any time the train is less than 2/3 full. So this is probably the source of most of the trimless rides you'll get, either first thing in the morning, or late at night. We always pulled the trims for the last train as well, but I had mixed results during my last train rides this season.

If there is any time when the trains are fully loaded, the trims pulled, and the timings are over 65 seconds, the crew is to close the ride as soon as possible without sending any empty trains over the lift. This means that the third train will be unloaded from the ready brakes with management present..

-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew

So if i follow you all correctly, and the information is accurate. Then a ride like MS that is automated and will trim depending on the speed of the previous train. Therefore it seems to me that there is a potential for a bad series of events (from my point of view). You see if one train runs a little slow then the next has to be trimmed, making it slow, followed by another train that is slowed possibly further still. It would seem reasonable that there would be a trim max (speed min), but it also seems that it is possible to get in this rut of terrible over trimming. Any thoughts?

Meanstreak is actually set and it stays that way.. Mantis is the only "adjusting" trim that I can remember in the park. All other rides are manual.

I'll ask the guy who wrote the MS code in the morning to double check myself.

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June 11th, 2001 - Gemini 100
VertiGo Rides - 82
Technical Services 2002
Fright Zone Screamster 2002

Actually, according to Monty Jasper, Mean Streak's pressure is calculated based on the time of the train ahead. So if you get on the first train after an empty, an empty that took a long time to complete the course, you may get little to no trimming at all. I noticed this last year at CoasterMania where there might have been two to four people on the train ahead, it made for a much lighter trim.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

Does Raptor have any trims? I don't recall any, but it's been awhile.

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Tommy Penner
- YoYoBaybeeMan
Chrysler's new catch-phrase: "Drive & Love"... Isn't that dangerous?

Nope. The mid-course will trim a little, but if it does, it's only the interest of meeting the dispatch interval. The last two years it has trimmed very lightly. My theory, and it may not be a good one, is that they reduced the trimming at the mid-course and increased the stopping power in the final brakes. That way, the second half of the ride remains intense but you still space the trains out enough to not stack.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
"The world rotates to The Ultra-Heavy Beat!" - KMFDM

For the Gemini trims, we can adjust the trims between zero and two ourselves, with a knob that is up above the controls. That knob goes from zero to six. If the trains are still coming in too fast, we usually had to get recommendation from Park Ops or Maintenance to turn the trims to three or higher. On cold days, the trims are usually set at zero which is completely open (off), and typically, the warmer it is, the higher the trims need to be. We rarely had to turn them higher than two though.

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Brent Haley
Gemini Crew '02 & '03

Actually for Raptor, the trims are necessary to keep the forces in the second half of the ride from becoming too intense and uncomfortable for riders. Although we might prefer it more intense, a few years back there were some complaints that the final transition into the brake run was a little rough, so the trimming was increased to keep it smoother. On the good side, the trimming needed to be increased because the overall ride had broken in well and was running faster than expected.

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-Brian
Where am I now???

It's weird how that final transition on Raptor is perfectly smooth near the front of the train, but in the back, you definitely need to be prepared for it. Mantis' final brake is alot the same way. Perhaps if B&M/CP were to do these rides over, they'd put just a little bit more track (so the whole train had a chance to be straight) before the brakes?

-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
2003 Magnum Crew

What the heck is a trim? Am I asking a stupid question?

A trim is a brake placed on the ride to slow it down. There are many reasons for trims. The main ones are to reduce G-Forces and to keep the ride from tearing itself apart by going too fast.

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Aww.....Florida! But That's America's Wang

A trim break is not necessarily a block break. Although in Raptors case the Block is used like a trim sometimes. A block break is in place to make sure two trains have no chance of colliding, while a trim is to slow the vehicle.

A good example of a trim is the first drop of the Mean Streak or Mantis. These breaks don't seem to be capable of stopping the train but will reduce speed.