Trim Brakes

Alright guys,

I know that trim brakes are to slow the ride down for speed and structural purposes, and possibly stop the train in an emergency, but I have one question remaining. And that is...........Why are they sometimes open, and why are they sometimes closed? If it is bad for the track, then why are they ever open, and if not, why aren't they always open??? I know guessing whether or not the trims on Magnum will be open is fun, but wouldn't it be sweet if they always were???

Just a thought.
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"Welcome back Gemini riders, how was that ride!?!?!" 25 years of excellence!

Trim breaks never 'stop' a train... this is just a word usage problem, though... if you are talking about something such as block breaks (like the ones on Raptor half through the ride where it almost looks like a mini-station) those do stop trains, but trim breaks only slow a train down. Almost all rides there is some sensors that detect when a train is going too fast or slow and trims automatically. The ones that don't are (presumably) deemed 'on' or 'off' by either a supervisor or somebody in charge to eliminate rollbacks and such.

Ok, I understand that now. But there is still something I don't get?? I am going to use the Gemini for instance......There is the light above the ride computers in the station, so whether the brakes are open or not is pre-determined...by possibly a supervisor as you mentioned above, but what would they decide to have them open or not on any given night??

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"Welcome back Gemini riders, how was that ride!?!?!" 25 years of excellence!

If it's a little cold, the train doesn't move as quick. It may then be neccesary to keep the trims open. If I'm not mistaken these brakes must always be on unless Supervision or Maintenance tells them to "open" them.

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Formerly the imbecile known as ddogg
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2003 Super Screw Crew
*** This post was edited by Drew 9/25/2003 10:14:47 PM ***

On Magnum and Gemini, as I understand it, the operators have some control over the brakes, and rigid procedures to follow regarding when they should be open and when they should be closed. On Magnum, for instance, it's a question of wind speed and direction, also temperature...and (the reason the ops have some control) the number of riders on the train. I imagine Gemini is similar.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Here's something that may help clear it up...

On rides like Mantis with trim brakes going down the first hill (or any brakes not on a level surface for that matter), they are merely there to help control structural damage to the ride and control g-forces. Ride operators generally have no control over the trim brakes. On Mantis, they are controlled by maintenance with supervision approval. In fact, they can not stop a train, they can cause a train to rollback (as Mantis did a few years ago). Most trim brakes are controlled by the speed of the previous train, so if at all possible, I would suggest riding the first fully loaded train after downtime (weather, mechanical, etc...) as the computer will sense the speed of the previous empty train and adjust the next one accordingly.

Block brakes on the other hand are intended for the rides safety. They help space out the trains so that more trains can operate safely and efficiently. Most block brakes will slow the trains down a little, but they are also capable of stopping the trains. All block brakes have a slight grade to them (to allow the trains to begin rolling after a stop), although the grade is very small.

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MANTIS ROCKS 2002 & 2003

Ok, that helps a lot!! Thanks to all who replied......more replies are welcome.......

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"Welcome back Gemini riders, how was that ride!?!?!" 25 years of excellence!

It should be noted that while ride operators have no control over the trims on Mantis, there are some rides that they have the ability to adjust (Gemini) or turn off completely (Magnum) all from the control panel.

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James Draeger
*** This post was edited by Draegs 9/26/2003 11:31:28 AM ***

There is a certain amount of luck involved in getting a "trimless" ride (on rides where it is possible to have the trims be off). I've ridden the first loaded train on Mean Streak many times and the trims have been on for most. If it's a really hot day, an empty train may still go fast enough for the computer to turn the trims on.

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*- Chuck Wagon - *
- The best food in the park -
formerly CP_Fan

A question popped into my head as i was reading Brian Short's reply about a matis rollback and was wondering if anyone has any video, or found any video on the internet of a coaster at cp other than TTd rollback? If you have any clue, please reply with some answers...

Any imput would be greatly appreciated.

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TTD: 6 (Rollbacks seen: 24)
MF: 20
WT: 9

What about in the mornings on Mantis they stop the train on the brake run before the corkscrew. Arn't those trims?

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"Welcome back riders, how was your ride?"

twisterII said:
What about in the mornings on Mantis they stop the train on the brake run before the corkscrew. Arn't those trims?
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"Welcome back riders, how was your ride?"

Those aren't true trims...that is the midcourse brake run. Its designed to stop a train if the block in front of it isn't clear. i.e. the train in front of it hasn't cleared the first set of brakes at the end of the ride. That said many rides use their midcourse as a set of trims even though some don't really need it.

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Future CP Ride op?

Had I thought about it at the time and actually had my camera out, I could have gotten you at least 3 major rides with rollbacks this past summer. Most of it is because of weather conditions, but it can (and does) happen. Hardly ever will it happen loaded though.

Oh and contrary to what I heard from someone this weekend, Wicked Twister can NOT rollback!!!

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MANTIS ROCKS 2002 & 2003

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Millennium Force Laps-129
**Vertigo Launches-21**
Dragster Launches-20
Has anyone else noticed that for the last few weekends Mantis has been "weird"? The trims were off of the first drop, which I have experienced many times. The odd part was the second half of the ride, after the block brakes(I'm trying to use the correct terminology, sorry if I'm wrong). The trains were extremely slow. We were kind of floating(instead of whipping) through the last inversions, which I have never experienced before. For whatever reasons, it made the ride the exact opposite of how it usually is. The first half was fast and furious, while the second half was slow and gentle.
*** This post was edited by macho nachos 10/7/2003 12:50:48 AM ***

You can usually experience that with Mantis. With the weather getting colder and colder, the first drop trims will mor than likely be lessened (or even turned off), which will make the 1st half faster. On the flip side, the block brakes will have to hit harder so as not to cause undue pressure on the track/trains/brakes during the last half. If you get trimmed (majorly) on the first drop, most the time you can expect a faster ride during the second half. All of it is computer controlled, so no chance of any ride operator just having fun with you. Magnum however, can give you two totally different rides (depending on if the trims get pulled or not).

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MANTIS ROCKS 2002 & 2003

I have pictures of a B side gemini rollback. Its noting special just a train sitting at the base of the first drop. I also have MS rollback pictures when the gold train rolledback between the third and fourth hills.

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Dan Haverlock
TTD Rollbacks 2 For 59
"get a job man!"

Post them somewhere :)

I don't know about that, Brian. Wicked Twister has rolled back every time I've been on it. :)

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Without upstops, airtime would have a whole new meaning!

Haha...not taken in that context...

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MANTIS ROCKS 2002 & 2003