Toledo Blade Article

Here's an interesting article from today's Blade. It brings back the CP vs SFMM coaster wars. CP is now saying Demon Drop is as much of a coaster as Superman.
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-Chris Woodard
"Mean Streak would be better if they replaced the square wheels with round ones."

Well, it is! I've been saying this for quite some time now. How can the original free-fall not be a coaster, but the reverse free-fall can? That just doesn't make sense. Cedar Point isn't trying to prove that Demon Drop is a coaster, they're trying to disprove that Superman is. It wouldn't matter if Demon Drop was a coaster to Cedar Point because SFMM has Free Fall.

I still think that if the first free-falls were built in the midst of the coaster wars this past decade that they would be considered coasters. They are full circuit, they have a lift, they run primarily with gravity, and they run on rails...why is it not considered a coaster?

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MF count: 23

*** This post was edited by CP_bound on 2/11/2002. ***

You need to re-read that. Janice didn't say that Demon Drop is a coaster. She said that CP considers the ride to be similar, but neither a coaster.

And besides, Magic Mountain is on their own. In 1999, they said that Superman was the tallest coaster in the world. In 2000, they said Goliath was. Go figure.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

Yes Jeff, you are right. I was in a hurry when I read that and made the post, but she does only say the two are similar. I agree with what CP_bound said, they are using DD as a way to disprove Superman as being a coaster. I think CP should build a reverse free-fall of their own, and not call it a coaster, that would shut SF up.
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-Chris Woodard
"Mean Streak would be better if they replaced the square wheels with round ones."

*** This post was edited by Ralph Wiggum on 2/11/2002. ***

I don't know, I wouldn't stand behind CP calling WT a coaster and not Superman, but to each his own.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

When I was looking at the 2002 Guiness Book in December. I'm going by what I think I remember. I hope somone else has seen the book.... :) They mentioned that when determining the records they refer to industry experts. I think they mentioned in the tallest coaster section that since the Reverse freefall was not considered a coaster by industry experts it could not be claimed as the tallest. Therefore I would assume Guiness would consider CP as still having the most in the 2003 edition. Is there anybody who can confirm this. I don't really have the book in front of me to see if I remembered correctly.

Jeff

I would argue that S:UE, V2, and WT are all coasters but S:TE is not, its simple really, S:TE doesn't have a train, performs no more maneuvers then forward and backwards.

Impulses all have lateral movement as well and articulated trains. Reverse Free Falls have nothing more then rocket sleds for cars, in essence a reverse Demon drop nothign more at all.

By that definition then Wildcat isn't a coaster because it has no train. Also, the first Impulse (built in Japan, I believe) "performs no more maneuvers" because it has no twists, and by your definition would also not be a coaster.

Guinness says that the fastest roller coaster is Superman: The Escape. Therefore, Guinness considers it a roller coaster. They do make the distinction that Dodonpa, the new S&S Thrust Air in Japan, is the fastest complete-circuit coaster.

Cedar Point will have to settle for a tie. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Now if they want to talk about the most complete-circuit coasters, they've got a lock on that one without question.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

Why don't you ask the experts?
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Wicked Twister Rocks

Wrong site sorry. Dr.Lisa Scheinin is the one you looking for!
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Wicked Twister Rocks

You need one or the other Jeff, S:TE has neither lateral movement nor an articulated train, Wildcat has lateral movement but no articulated train, Linear Gale has an articulated train but no lateral movemt, see what I am getting at? Anyway it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever I just question why first generation freefalls aren't considered coasters if S:TE is. Tell me what the difference is really. Its all sematics I guess. Even if DD were considered a coaster SFMM has a 1st Gen Free Fall as well so it wouldn't make a difference at all. Guess I just like to argue. :)

Magnum Force said:
Anyway it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever I just question why first generation freefalls aren't considered coasters if S:TE is.

Ok, here's one for you.

S:TE uses a vehicle that rolls along a track where the riders are facing a direction that is parallel to the direction they're moving (forwards/backwards). At no point do the 1st generation freefalls ever have their riders face in a direction parallel to the motion of the ride, and the cages don't even remotely resemble vehicles. So even though they DO use a track of sorts, they're not "roller coasters".

There, how's that? ;)

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--Greg
My Home
MF count: 52

That parallel reasoning makes sense. I guess a person would have to create a difinition of what makes a coaster a coaster. Cause now with X, and flying coasters the riders don't necessarily ride parallel. I don't mean to bring those two in since they are obviously not free falls. I like that parallel reasoning though.

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YES! No more full time trash work!
Witches' Wheel triangle - 2002

Hey Greg Leg, LOL You do face parrallell to your motion on Demon drop when you move forward in the station and and the top of the lift. Truly it makes no difference, but a real definition is needed. I could care less whats what I just think clarification would be great.

Magnum Force said:
You need one or the other Jeff, S:TE has neither lateral movement nor an articulated train, Wildcat has lateral movement but no articulated train, Linear Gale has an articulated train but no lateral movemt, see what I am getting at?

This makes the most sense out of anything out there. I'm sticking with this explanation... Good job, Magnum! :)

Yeah, riders faces the same direction as the track in the station on DD so that definition isn't good enough for me. :)

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MF count: 23

Magnum Force said:
"You need one or the other Jeff, S:TE has neither lateral movement nor an articulated train"

So if instead of releasing from the station straight into the "magnet" area, a reverse-freefall coaster did, say, a 90 degree right hand turn (at a slow speed mind you), resulting in *some* lateral movement; THAT would be enough for you to quantify it as a coaster?

It seems to me like you have carefully crafted your narrow definition with the express intent of excluding S:TE. For example, take out the barrel rolls on Ultra-Twister @ SFAW; would it then NOT be a coaster (it'd be incredibly lame, but still a coaster).

Personally, I'm still a big believer in the "Duck Test". If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck!
jeremy
--"Things look bad for Mr. Quackers..."

So Superman is a duck?
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Duane Cahill
Coasterbuzz Track Record - 59
CP Track Record - 13 (too tall for Jr. Gemini)

I think Ducks fly higher though.

On Coasterbuzz I asked the following:

If Cedar Point would have built Superman:TE, do you think they would have called it a coaster?

I am betting yes. What do you all think?