Three Point Donniker

Now that Demon Drop is gone, what surprises me is that the Three Point Challenge wasn't moved to take its place.

What Three Point Challenge? The one off the main midway. There, you go past the Midway Carousel, and go to the right, stay along the fence line, and go back behind the main gift shop. Back there, where there is nothing else. Still can't see it? Keep going, down past the fire door until you see the chain link. If you want to know what it means for a game joint to be donnikered, just look at Cedar Point's Three Point Challenge...if you can find it.

It's no better if you approach from the other direction. On the right is Toft's ice cream parlor in the big blue barn. On the left is that little pink girl store. Next to that is a service gate, and if you actually go around the corner, you might catch a glimpse of the Three Point Challenge.

The Three Point Challenge game in Frontiertown looks to be a license to print money. The one up on the main midway...well, the jointee looked really, really bored on Sunday.

There's nothing to that joint. It would be easy to pick it up and move it; just move some fences around, maybe pour a little concrete. I wouldn't be surprised to see this game relocated sometime this season. I'm surprised it didn't get moved over the winter.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RideMan said:Now that Demon Drop is gone, what surprises me is that the Three Point Challenge wasn't moved to take its place.

Why bother when they would have to move it again next offseason? :)

Because the couple hundred bucks to move it this off-season would net them a couple thousand in profits.

Instead, it will cost them money because I really doubt that they get enough customers at that location to pay the electric bill for the scoreboard and microphone - much less the 7.50/hr of the employee.

Yeah, the FT location is just booming whenever I'm back there. It's an excellent location, surrounded by places to sit, eat and watch.

If they do relocate it, they really need to put some thought into picking a location out of the wind. Both of the three point games were susceptible to wind last time I played them.

Not bragging, but I'm an excellent three point shooter, and those games are frustrating when there is a breeze because no matter how good a shooter you are, you're not going to win if it's windy. If it's a calm day, that game is easy picking if you're a good shooter.

JuggaLotus said:
Because the couple hundred bucks to move it this off-season would net them a couple thousand in profits.

Ideally, relocating it would be great.

Except that it would be a lot more than a couple hundred bucks to move it. It would be at least a couple hundred bucks in material. It would be at least a few thousand in labor to tear it down and rebuild it.

A 2 man crew will run you about $500 per day. A 4" slab will run about $25 per square foot just for the concrete, you've got footers with reinforcing. Plus there's a certain amount of the existing structure you wouldn't be able to reuse. For example, any of the poles that are set into footers. Plus you have equipment rental. Dump truck for debris removal, excavator, jack hammer, etc.

To me this would be At least a $3,000 job. Is the game really going to recoup that in a year?

If the space has another intended use and the game would be moved back in a year or so anyway, i do not see a financial benefit to move it for one year.

I felt Three Point Challenge was abandoned with the removal of Demon Drop. There is really no reason to go back there. Even with Demon Drop that area got minimal traffic. I agree that it should be moved. Assuming that the former DD site will be reused in the future that would not be a good site for TPC.

Two possible sites nearby that appear to be large enough would be between Tofts and the Main Midway games and across form Game Day which would fit in which the restaurant's theme. There are a number of places in the Game Day/Blue Streak/Turnpike Cars area that TPC would fit and still allow room for a possible flat in the middle of that large area of concrete.

I think it would look good and do very well in the empty spot between max air and kiddyland.

Jason Hammond said:
To me this would be At least a $3,000 job. Is the game really going to recoup that in a year?

Have you seen the Frontier game? On busy days you have to push through to get to Maverick. As Rideman said, its a license to print money and I wouldn't be surprised if they doubled that investment on Memorial Day weekend.

Crazy Horse, that's another great spot. I believe you mean outside Johnny Rockets. I always thought that they could put a flat or two there.

MagnumFan said:
If they do relocate it, they really need to put some thought into picking a location out of the wind. Both of the three point games were susceptible to wind last time I played them.

Not bragging, but I'm an excellent three point shooter, and those games are frustrating when there is a breeze because no matter how good a shooter you are, you're not going to win if it's windy. If it's a calm day, that game is easy picking if you're a good shooter.

You forgot to mention that the ball is not a standard size ball, and the hoop is smaller than a standard size hoop. Anything to take your money. ;)

I'll never forget watching some guy win not one, but two (perhaps more - memory's fuzzy) Nintendo Wii consoles (maybe last season?). His skill level at that game was absolutely insane.

People really get into some of those games.

I remember watching a guy a few years ago playing the break the plates game. He spent over $200 trying to win the taz devil bride and groom stuffed animals.

The game costs $5 to play for 40 seconds. During peak times in Frontier Town they have a constant flow of players. Lets say one every 45 seconds, that's $400 an hour. Granted they aren't stacked up all,day, so lets say its $300 an hour. That works out to $3,600 for a 12 hour day. Subtract the employees saleries and the prizes and CP is still making a killing.

It certainly is worth the cost of moving. Put TPC in a more high traffic area would be a good move for CP.

Maybe that will be a VERY high traffic area next year.

Given the total traffic for an entire day, I'd say even $300 is being generous.

PrawoJazdy said:
Have you seen the Frontier game? On busy days you have to push through to get to Maverick. As Rideman said, its a license to print money and I wouldn't be surprised if they doubled that investment on Memorial Day weekend.

Granted. But, they need to make an Extra $3000 in Profit (not revenue) to pay for moving it this year. Then an Additional $3000 Extra in Profit to pay to move it back (if that's where they plan to keep it). It'd make more sense to just put up a big sign pointing to where it's located. They may make a killing on it on the weekends, but I doubt it does that well on a daily basis all year long.

Not to mention, we don't know what their plans even are for the area. If they want to begin construction before the end of the season, moving the 3PC to that area might not even be possible.

I agree, having it prominently displayed at the front of the park would be a great location. But, without knowing what the parks future plans are, you can't begin to know whether or not something makes sense or will be feasible or cost effective.

The only time that I'd ever noticed the 3-point in question was when I exited Demon Drop. One of my frequent CP cohorts is a pretty solid basketball player, and has held the daily high score at the Frontier 3-point more than once, so whenever I go to the park with him, I'm acutely aware of the location of all of the basketball games, as playing those takes up a chunk of the day. But even during those times, I've never seen more than a one or two person wait at the front-of-park game.

It's unique amongst the games, as it really feeds off the energy of non-participants, and as others have said, the Frontier location is prime for this in terms of passersby. I've never seen anything close to that level of energy at the former DD location. The real prize isn't whatever trinket they're offering, it's the satisfaction of sinking a 3 in front of a crowd.

My thoughts are based on TPC's current location remaining a low traffic area in the future. My money figures are based on Three Point Shootout in Frontier Town. Because of it's high traffic location Three Point Shootout does attract a large amount of players and spectators. Moving TPC to a comparable area at the front should draw a similar amount of players. I'm personally figuring any move would be permanent and at $3,000 plus a day definitely worth the expense. Even if there is a new ride by Demon Drop the location entrance/exit may not bring traffic back to that corner. We don't know.

The present donniker is never going to be a high traffic area unless the gift shop, coffee and doughnut shop, arcade, and ice cream parlor are all demolished. Given that all of that has been refreshed in the last three years, I don't see it changing much. If they are planning on putting a new ride in that location (and I, for one, am not entirely convinced that they are), the new ride will probably displace the game anyway.

Oh, and Jason...I take issue with your numbers. Remember what kind of business you're dealing with here. You can deduct costs for practically all of the equipment and labor, because the Company already has both. The equipment is sitting idle, and the labor is presently doing other things, but can be repurposed at minimal cost. And as noted, there is almost no possibility that the game won't recoup its costs.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RideMan said:the new ride will probably displace the game anyway

And probably the midway itself. Like you said, not much traffic down that way so it would make sense to me to just remove it if a new attraction was going in the old Demon Drop space. This would not only give the new attraction more space but also close off that midway and force people to continue down the Main Midway in front of the shops.