The birth of CP?
I was reading the enquirer article on coasterbuzz about how ohio is the coaster capital and a question popped up. Basically how did cedar point become the best park in the nation. I have not read that one book about them. I do know they opened somewhere around 1898 i think. But when CF bought CP (whenever that was?) how did they decide to make CP the best park and why. (not that i am arguing). I know it was a watering hole for a while and coasters were not big there until (20-30 years ago somewhere in that frame--may be wrong there) Basically how and why did CF decide CP would be the flagship park of coaster parks around the world?? (yeah i'm sure your all laughing at this question oh well)
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Welcome back Millennium Force riders...We all want to know how was your RIDE!!!!!
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Welcome back Millennium Force riders...We all want to know how was your RIDE!!!!!
I don't think that CF "decided" that CP would become the flagship coaster park. I'm sure that if corporations could "decide" things like that about their product, every park would be the best.
What they did do was build rides. Obviously, the heads of Cedar Point found out that building bigger and better rides attracted more people to the park, so they kept on doing it. All the while, they didn't lose sight of the fact that many different types of people visit their park. Therefore, in between building their coasters, they concentrated on the atmosphere of the park, resorts, water rides, Soak City, Challenge Park,shows, etc... After awhile, Cedar Point became what it is today.
Trust me, in the eighties, Cedar Point was not the coaster capital that it is today. Only Iron Dragon and Avalanche Run were built during that decade until 1989 when Magnum came. I think that Magnum is really what made Cedar Point take off and become what it is today. I'm sure that the Cedar Fair heads are hoping that MF will have the same type of effect amplified (as I'm sure that it will).
To quote "Field of Dreams." "If you build it they will come." Cedar Fair seems to have used that idea in building up Cedar Point, and it has obviously worked wonderfully.
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...and enjoy the rest of your day at Cedar Point, The Am-aaaa-zement park!
What they did do was build rides. Obviously, the heads of Cedar Point found out that building bigger and better rides attracted more people to the park, so they kept on doing it. All the while, they didn't lose sight of the fact that many different types of people visit their park. Therefore, in between building their coasters, they concentrated on the atmosphere of the park, resorts, water rides, Soak City, Challenge Park,shows, etc... After awhile, Cedar Point became what it is today.
Trust me, in the eighties, Cedar Point was not the coaster capital that it is today. Only Iron Dragon and Avalanche Run were built during that decade until 1989 when Magnum came. I think that Magnum is really what made Cedar Point take off and become what it is today. I'm sure that the Cedar Fair heads are hoping that MF will have the same type of effect amplified (as I'm sure that it will).
To quote "Field of Dreams." "If you build it they will come." Cedar Fair seems to have used that idea in building up Cedar Point, and it has obviously worked wonderfully.
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...and enjoy the rest of your day at Cedar Point, The Am-aaaa-zement park!
Hooper, CP: Queen of American Watering Places will definitely give you the low-down on this one. Pretty much what happpened is this, though: After the renaissance of CP under the leadership of Emile Legros and George Roose, the seventies brought about many further improvements including the purchase of Valleyfair and Robert Munger as the Chief Executive of the company. Somewhere along the line, Cp became publicly traded. Due to CP's astouding success, many mergers/takeover attempts (some hostile)by the likes of August Busch, Taft Broadcasting (previous owner of PKI), and the most frightening of all--MCA. Robert Munger, stock holders and the board of directors, felt that a publicly held company was at risk of more hostile take-over attempts, so action was taken to insure this would not happen. In 1980, a British firm backed Munger financailly forming a partnership that would purchase the majority of the company's shares. Although some disagreed and followd with a restraining order, CP is now a privately held partnership which means it is safe from evil takeovers and dividend tax, too! So essentially, CP was never "bought out" as successive generations of Chief Executives have preserved the common interests that have been handed all the way down from Mr. Boeckling himself.
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-Dave Kochman
Pittsburgh
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-Dave Kochman
Pittsburgh
One of the park's greatest assets has always been its location. I love parks set in hilly terrain, like PKI and Kennywood, but there's something about being out there on that peninsula.
If I had to pick the start of the modern ride era, it would have to be with the birth of Corkscrew in 1976. People waited in line for hours to get on that thing and it scared the heck out of them. With every major attraction since, they've tried to raise the bar.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
"And he says 'I'm goin' crazy up there at the lake...'"
If I had to pick the start of the modern ride era, it would have to be with the birth of Corkscrew in 1976. People waited in line for hours to get on that thing and it scared the heck out of them. With every major attraction since, they've tried to raise the bar.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
"And he says 'I'm goin' crazy up there at the lake...'"
Jeff and Natas, you raise interesting points as to what the defining moments for the birth of a modern CP. In my personal opinion, the charm of CP has evolved over the years thanks in part to a few remaining landmarks that made it through the tougher times, those being most notably: The setting of Hotel BReakers on the wonderful beach which has automatically instilled that old time, relaxed resort atmosphere; then the Colisseum which dictated the position of the main midway after the removal of the old amusement circle. It also highly influenced the structure of surrounding buildings and landscaping with the preserval of many old statues and such.
I would have to consider the Blue Streak, an icon of classic roller coaster fun which reminds us of the early 60's traditional amusement park development.
Talking in modern times, a few major attractions solidified CP as a major contender in the --theme park business--a direction that the park seemed to be headed in. Those attractions would be the IMAX, Frontier Town but more specifically the TRAIL, and of course albeit a little earlier, the Western Cruise--now PE. And of course, I believe the defining moment of the seventies was Gemini. Ask any one who frequented the park then to name the first thing that comes to mind and Gemini comes up alot. It also established CP as a leader in innovation and pushing the edge with thrill rides.
Early eighties defining moments: Barenstein Bears, Demon Drop, then the later removal of the the slides and golf course. This really changed the look of the park.
Then in the late eighties, probably the single most defining moment in CP history we had the Magnum-XL 200. It totally changed people's perceptions of the thrill industry. More importantly, though, I believe that CP was having an identity crisis during the 80's. They couldn't decide whether they were a theme park or a thrill park. Maggie once and for all put that issue to rest. It changed the entire future for CP and CF. Not to be forgotten is also the Sand Castle Suites development, which sparked new interest in the resort atmosphere at CP. It was thanks to the success of this event that the entire Hotel Breakers was refurbished/ rebuilt. In comparison, it was quite shall I say quaint in my younger days when a tier suite used to go for 200 a night and the sidewalks along the boardwalk wre still cracked due to the roots of old oaks and the uncertainty of the hotel's future. These events have been responsible for turning CP into the first hybrid of its kind:a thrill park resort, which others in the industry are now scrambling to replicate; but unfortunately,they're missing a few things: a lake, a peninsula, and loving management and fans that feel a deep bond to their park. This along with the advent of Soak City and Challenge Park gave guests a weeks worth of activities.
Going on through the nineties, Raptor reaffirmed Cp's committment to the latest thrills, being an astounding success which is also one of the most flawless coasters ever designed. (IMHO, Mantis to many, was just a follow-up to the success of Raptor--a sequel that didn't capture as much public interest as initially conjectured.) So from this we can also note Cp's great attention to detail. Planning has immensely helped the park's appeal and character and also the ammenities that have been installed for guest hositality--now a major goal in CF's catering to a new generation of thrill riders. Since then, CP has further enhanced overall amenities with the building of Breakers Tower and the addition TGIF a welcome restaurant experience right on the beach. The final major moment of the nineties was Camp Snoopy last year, the beginning of a consolidation that will improve the family experience based on the fact that kids and parents will now be able to enjoy their own little world designed especially to cater to the younger crowd. On a side note, I believe that although the Oceana midway was a good decision from a theme park standpoint, CP's attention to its success, though, was a little more than apathetic. CP's seeming lack of proper planning here will most surely be corrected with the rumored Boardwalk area, the perfect synthesis for that region of the park. One slight planning inadequacy ISN't TOO BAD, though.
So now, the first attraction of the "new millennium" (it actually begins next year) is set to open. What type of impact will it make? Everything seen and heard so far points to the fact that this will be just as revolutionary as Magnum was when it opened, although many in the roller coaster commmunity excuse it as just another sequel to play off the success of the first. Although we will only know the net results of 2.5 years of planning and 28 million dollars invested in MF years from now, we certainly do know one thing: Once again, "The future is riding on it."
Hooper:no problem about the info; that's what being in the CP family is all about.
If you don't have it , though, I VERY HIGLY RECOMMEND Cedar Point: The Queen of American Watering Places by David W. Francis and Diane DeMali Francis. It's a must for any CP enthusiast and just overall--a great bit of reading. It's first printing was '88 and its latest incarnation was printed again for the 125th anniversary in '95. Lots of great photos and insight. You'll be surprised as to the odds CP overcame in transforming into the special place it is today. --It almost didn't make it. But after you read it, you can impress your friends (yeah right) and use it as a handy reference guide for posting and settling diputes. ;) I believe Amazon.com carries it. If not you can pick them up at a fine gift retailer out on the peninsula next week.
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This commercial break has been brought to you by
Dave Kochman
Ready for bed in Pittsburgh.
I would have to consider the Blue Streak, an icon of classic roller coaster fun which reminds us of the early 60's traditional amusement park development.
Talking in modern times, a few major attractions solidified CP as a major contender in the --theme park business--a direction that the park seemed to be headed in. Those attractions would be the IMAX, Frontier Town but more specifically the TRAIL, and of course albeit a little earlier, the Western Cruise--now PE. And of course, I believe the defining moment of the seventies was Gemini. Ask any one who frequented the park then to name the first thing that comes to mind and Gemini comes up alot. It also established CP as a leader in innovation and pushing the edge with thrill rides.
Early eighties defining moments: Barenstein Bears, Demon Drop, then the later removal of the the slides and golf course. This really changed the look of the park.
Then in the late eighties, probably the single most defining moment in CP history we had the Magnum-XL 200. It totally changed people's perceptions of the thrill industry. More importantly, though, I believe that CP was having an identity crisis during the 80's. They couldn't decide whether they were a theme park or a thrill park. Maggie once and for all put that issue to rest. It changed the entire future for CP and CF. Not to be forgotten is also the Sand Castle Suites development, which sparked new interest in the resort atmosphere at CP. It was thanks to the success of this event that the entire Hotel Breakers was refurbished/ rebuilt. In comparison, it was quite shall I say quaint in my younger days when a tier suite used to go for 200 a night and the sidewalks along the boardwalk wre still cracked due to the roots of old oaks and the uncertainty of the hotel's future. These events have been responsible for turning CP into the first hybrid of its kind:a thrill park resort, which others in the industry are now scrambling to replicate; but unfortunately,they're missing a few things: a lake, a peninsula, and loving management and fans that feel a deep bond to their park. This along with the advent of Soak City and Challenge Park gave guests a weeks worth of activities.
Going on through the nineties, Raptor reaffirmed Cp's committment to the latest thrills, being an astounding success which is also one of the most flawless coasters ever designed. (IMHO, Mantis to many, was just a follow-up to the success of Raptor--a sequel that didn't capture as much public interest as initially conjectured.) So from this we can also note Cp's great attention to detail. Planning has immensely helped the park's appeal and character and also the ammenities that have been installed for guest hositality--now a major goal in CF's catering to a new generation of thrill riders. Since then, CP has further enhanced overall amenities with the building of Breakers Tower and the addition TGIF a welcome restaurant experience right on the beach. The final major moment of the nineties was Camp Snoopy last year, the beginning of a consolidation that will improve the family experience based on the fact that kids and parents will now be able to enjoy their own little world designed especially to cater to the younger crowd. On a side note, I believe that although the Oceana midway was a good decision from a theme park standpoint, CP's attention to its success, though, was a little more than apathetic. CP's seeming lack of proper planning here will most surely be corrected with the rumored Boardwalk area, the perfect synthesis for that region of the park. One slight planning inadequacy ISN't TOO BAD, though.
So now, the first attraction of the "new millennium" (it actually begins next year) is set to open. What type of impact will it make? Everything seen and heard so far points to the fact that this will be just as revolutionary as Magnum was when it opened, although many in the roller coaster commmunity excuse it as just another sequel to play off the success of the first. Although we will only know the net results of 2.5 years of planning and 28 million dollars invested in MF years from now, we certainly do know one thing: Once again, "The future is riding on it."
Hooper:no problem about the info; that's what being in the CP family is all about.
If you don't have it , though, I VERY HIGLY RECOMMEND Cedar Point: The Queen of American Watering Places by David W. Francis and Diane DeMali Francis. It's a must for any CP enthusiast and just overall--a great bit of reading. It's first printing was '88 and its latest incarnation was printed again for the 125th anniversary in '95. Lots of great photos and insight. You'll be surprised as to the odds CP overcame in transforming into the special place it is today. --It almost didn't make it. But after you read it, you can impress your friends (yeah right) and use it as a handy reference guide for posting and settling diputes. ;) I believe Amazon.com carries it. If not you can pick them up at a fine gift retailer out on the peninsula next week.
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This commercial break has been brought to you by
Dave Kochman
Ready for bed in Pittsburgh.
You also can't forget that Cedar Point is probably the only park that has built THREE different roller coasters that opened as "The tallest, fastest" complete circuit rollercoaster in the world! (Gemini-1978, Magnum 1989, and Millennium Force-2000)... 11 years apart from each other. Apart from those, many of the other rides at Cedar Point since the 1970's have been built as the "biggest, best, etc" of their kind---We have been spoiled by this great park--isn't it great???
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Tim Howe
Lansing, Michigan
CP every year, 1974-1999.
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Tim Howe
Lansing, Michigan
CP every year, 1974-1999.
No i don't have Cedar Point: The Queen of American Watering Places but i will get it dave. That is the book I was referring to in my original post i forgot the name though. Thanks again..this site just gets better and better. :)
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Welcome back Millennium Force riders...We all want to know how was your RIDE!!!!!
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Welcome back Millennium Force riders...We all want to know how was your RIDE!!!!!
Jeff is definitely right. The Corkscrew was the beginning of the modern coaster era. The construction of the Gemini was also remarkable for long-time CP fans. Old fogey that I am, I still think of that whole area in back of the lagoon as the new area, even though it's been there nearly 25 years now.
For the person who pointed out that not much was done in the 80's aside from Avalanche Run and the Iron Dragon, let me point out a couple of things:
1. The Demon Drop was Hot S--t when it was built in 1983. I recall waiting well over an hour for that baby its first couple years, although I wouldn't waste 15 minutes in line for it now.
2. The Iron Dragon was built in response to competition from the Bat at PKI and was considered very promising at the time, even though in hindsight we can see that this kind of ride was a pretty bad idea and the right hanging solution wasn't found until the Raptor-generation coasters.
3. Whitewater Landing in 1982 (?) was a major ride. (Although I always loved Shoot the Rapids.)
So I would not characterize the 80's as a dull era - CP made a real effort but made a couple of mistakes while experimenting - in particular, Iron Dragon and Avalanche Run. I forgive them, and since then they've done great.
-- Harley
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CP fan since 68.
For the person who pointed out that not much was done in the 80's aside from Avalanche Run and the Iron Dragon, let me point out a couple of things:
1. The Demon Drop was Hot S--t when it was built in 1983. I recall waiting well over an hour for that baby its first couple years, although I wouldn't waste 15 minutes in line for it now.
2. The Iron Dragon was built in response to competition from the Bat at PKI and was considered very promising at the time, even though in hindsight we can see that this kind of ride was a pretty bad idea and the right hanging solution wasn't found until the Raptor-generation coasters.
3. Whitewater Landing in 1982 (?) was a major ride. (Although I always loved Shoot the Rapids.)
So I would not characterize the 80's as a dull era - CP made a real effort but made a couple of mistakes while experimenting - in particular, Iron Dragon and Avalanche Run. I forgive them, and since then they've done great.
-- Harley
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CP fan since 68.
Although no one expressly stated that not much was done in the eighties, you may believe that I intimated that in my post. On the contrary, as you pointed out, many things WERE done in the eighties. I believe we're saying the same thing just in different wording. ( So first off, forgive me for any shortcomings on that novel of a post I wrote, it was late.)
You said:
***So I would not characterize the 80's as a dull era - CP made a real effort but made a couple of mistakes while experimenting - in particular, Iron Dragon and Avalanche Run. I forgive them, and since then they've done great.***
Hopefully, I'm not putting words in your mouth here, but essentially your statment is the same as my views on the eighties. First of all, if we are looking at things from a relative frame of refernece, the time being CP as it exists now, I believe that some of the "experiment"[al] choices
management made during the eighties was a result of their indecisiveness in what direction to take as a park: Thrill park or theme park. Therefore, I do not not consider Whitewater landing or Iron Dragon--major--advancements that brought about CP in its current manifestation. Iron Dragon although a pioneering ride for its time, did not do much to further brand or make famous the CP name due to the long term imprssion it created on the public. White Water Landing, although a very good water ride, was a carryover of theme. this said, although I believe the remaining theming in CP IS well done, it is not perceived by most of the public as a major reason they attend CP TODAY. AS a result, IMHO, it was rather the removal of a few attractions to make room for progress, the introduction of the Barenstein Bears--a great attempt at branding and family appeal, and also Demon drop--which as you said, caused a major stir.
Just my two cents.
-Dave Kochman
Pittsburgh
You said:
***So I would not characterize the 80's as a dull era - CP made a real effort but made a couple of mistakes while experimenting - in particular, Iron Dragon and Avalanche Run. I forgive them, and since then they've done great.***
Hopefully, I'm not putting words in your mouth here, but essentially your statment is the same as my views on the eighties. First of all, if we are looking at things from a relative frame of refernece, the time being CP as it exists now, I believe that some of the "experiment"[al] choices
management made during the eighties was a result of their indecisiveness in what direction to take as a park: Thrill park or theme park. Therefore, I do not not consider Whitewater landing or Iron Dragon--major--advancements that brought about CP in its current manifestation. Iron Dragon although a pioneering ride for its time, did not do much to further brand or make famous the CP name due to the long term imprssion it created on the public. White Water Landing, although a very good water ride, was a carryover of theme. this said, although I believe the remaining theming in CP IS well done, it is not perceived by most of the public as a major reason they attend CP TODAY. AS a result, IMHO, it was rather the removal of a few attractions to make room for progress, the introduction of the Barenstein Bears--a great attempt at branding and family appeal, and also Demon drop--which as you said, caused a major stir.
Just my two cents.
-Dave Kochman
Pittsburgh
I'm sorry for not being more clear in my above post. I wasn't down playing the importance of Demon Drop, White Water Landing, or Thunder Canyon for that matter. I was just saying that coasterwise (I think I just made up a new word)the 80's were not all that stellar until Magnum came along. You are right, Cedar Point made some great attempts. In fact, even though Disaster Transport and Iron Dragon aren't the greatest, I'm glad that the park has them. They are still fun rides and are terrific for the family.
P.S.-When Demon Drop was mentioned above, it brought back memories of me standing in line for the ride only to chicken out when I got up to the actual car. I stepped through the car and went down the exit ramp without riding. I didn't finally ride it until about three years later.
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...and enjoy the rest of your day at Cedar Point, The Am-aaaa-zement park! *** This post was edited by Natas on 5/1/2000. ***
P.S.-When Demon Drop was mentioned above, it brought back memories of me standing in line for the ride only to chicken out when I got up to the actual car. I stepped through the car and went down the exit ramp without riding. I didn't finally ride it until about three years later.
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...and enjoy the rest of your day at Cedar Point, The Am-aaaa-zement park! *** This post was edited by Natas on 5/1/2000. ***
I don't think anyone here is really disagreeing, but with respect to Magnum catapulting CP to the top of the coaster parks - I think they were already there in the context of the time. IMHO, what Magnum did was to define a whole new standard for thrill ride parks - since then, everyone else has been playing catch-up while CP has maintained its lead.
Am I a CP bigot to believe that CP has always been the best at any given moment in time? It's certainly been my experience!
-- Harley
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CP fan since 68.
Am I a CP bigot to believe that CP has always been the best at any given moment in time? It's certainly been my experience!
-- Harley
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CP fan since 68.
Right.... Magnum was a turning point for the entire industry, not just the park. It raised the bar big time. I wasn't until the later part of the 90's that we started to see other 200-footers like Apollo's Chariot, Raging Bull, Steel Force etc.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
"And he says 'I'm goin' crazy up there at the lake...'"
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
"And he says 'I'm goin' crazy up there at the lake...'"
OK, time to chime in:
What is the "defining" moment in CP history... ask ten people you'll get ten different answers as we are witnessing on this thread.
The success to CP has been best stated by Dick Kinzel when he said, and this is not an exact quote, "We are CARETAKERS of CP."
I beleive and strongly feel that MANY years from now my grandchildren will look through old books of pictures and see me riding the Gemini, Magnum or MF and say WOW look at that old ride.
CP seemed to grow in popularity through the seventies and eighties with a mentality of Large Attraction one year small attraction the next. This formula worked to "build" the base of the park you visit today.
In the late eighties the 'caretakers' choose to ENHANCE and EMPHASIS the resort aspect of CP. To do this they needed 1. More accomodations, 2. More attractions (ie. Soak City, Challenge Park)3. WORLD CLASS rides. Also CP had to insure for future growth by catering to the families with young children (ie. Berenstein Bears and now Camp Snoopy). If you are raised going to CP every summer you'll want to continue that 'tradition' with your own children someday.
The addition of The Corkscrew in 1976 exploded CP into STRONG regional park. The addition of Magnum in 1989 turned CP into a World Class Amusement Park. 2000 and the addition of MF will solidify CP's Number One ranking.
It is not so much that CP added a new , biggest, tallest, ... ride/attraction but everything that was done prior to that attraction being built.
Ask yourself, if CP added the Magnum in 1989 and then didn't do ANYTHING until adding the MF this year would any of us still be fans?
It is not one ride or attraction which makes CP what it is.
It's the ATTITUDE we, guests & employees alike share, WE ARE CARETAKERS of CP and we are very fortunate to be enjoying an incredible peak in the history of CP...let's hope this peak is even higher then the MF! *** This post was edited by Old Timer Tim on 5/1/2000. ***
What is the "defining" moment in CP history... ask ten people you'll get ten different answers as we are witnessing on this thread.
The success to CP has been best stated by Dick Kinzel when he said, and this is not an exact quote, "We are CARETAKERS of CP."
I beleive and strongly feel that MANY years from now my grandchildren will look through old books of pictures and see me riding the Gemini, Magnum or MF and say WOW look at that old ride.
CP seemed to grow in popularity through the seventies and eighties with a mentality of Large Attraction one year small attraction the next. This formula worked to "build" the base of the park you visit today.
In the late eighties the 'caretakers' choose to ENHANCE and EMPHASIS the resort aspect of CP. To do this they needed 1. More accomodations, 2. More attractions (ie. Soak City, Challenge Park)3. WORLD CLASS rides. Also CP had to insure for future growth by catering to the families with young children (ie. Berenstein Bears and now Camp Snoopy). If you are raised going to CP every summer you'll want to continue that 'tradition' with your own children someday.
The addition of The Corkscrew in 1976 exploded CP into STRONG regional park. The addition of Magnum in 1989 turned CP into a World Class Amusement Park. 2000 and the addition of MF will solidify CP's Number One ranking.
It is not so much that CP added a new , biggest, tallest, ... ride/attraction but everything that was done prior to that attraction being built.
Ask yourself, if CP added the Magnum in 1989 and then didn't do ANYTHING until adding the MF this year would any of us still be fans?
It is not one ride or attraction which makes CP what it is.
It's the ATTITUDE we, guests & employees alike share, WE ARE CARETAKERS of CP and we are very fortunate to be enjoying an incredible peak in the history of CP...let's hope this peak is even higher then the MF! *** This post was edited by Old Timer Tim on 5/1/2000. ***
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