Strange Encounters with Squeaky Wheels..
During yesterdasy's marathon 22 hour visit out to Cedar Point, I noticed while standing in line, a new squeaky roar coming from the MF trains as they went by. The instantaneous db level was insane! Upon inspection at the station, I observed that all but the front and back trailers have been converted to the thick core, white polymer wheels. Now I'm going on the assumption that due to the thicker core, this type of wheel will wear better, BUT...
The ride experience was vastly changed over my visit at the end of June when most of the wheels were of the lareger steel core, dark polymer variety. Besides having an inherent scream that irritated me greatly during the ride, these wheels seem to have a greater resistance while riding the track, too. They track in a plastic-like manner that definitely changes the feel of the ride--almost rougher in a sense as these wheels seem to be amplifying every little imperfection in the track.
I understand the benefits of having a wheel that has longer tread life (less downtime for replacement), but not at the expense of ride quality. Let's get those steel core wheels recycled and back on there---QUICKLY!
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-Dave Kochman
Pittsburgh
*** This post was edited by DaveTKoch on 7/26/2000. ***
The ride experience was vastly changed over my visit at the end of June when most of the wheels were of the lareger steel core, dark polymer variety. Besides having an inherent scream that irritated me greatly during the ride, these wheels seem to have a greater resistance while riding the track, too. They track in a plastic-like manner that definitely changes the feel of the ride--almost rougher in a sense as these wheels seem to be amplifying every little imperfection in the track.
I understand the benefits of having a wheel that has longer tread life (less downtime for replacement), but not at the expense of ride quality. Let's get those steel core wheels recycled and back on there---QUICKLY!
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-Dave Kochman
Pittsburgh
*** This post was edited by DaveTKoch on 7/26/2000. ***
Actually, I think that the wheels are made of some nylon-esque material (judging by the way they deteriorate). These wheels are faster than the steel/polymer wheels. They appeared in numbers on S:ROS at Darien Lake mid-season, apparently because it was moving entirely too slow when cold. The Force has used a mix of the wheels, and they've been changing them with environment to keep it right at 92 mph and in a certain cycle time.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 35
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 35
I noticed the strange whining noise while at the park Sat. 22nd. Wondered if the wheels were wearing out.
Thanks for the info.
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You can fool others, but nothing you do is hidden from God.
JESUS rules :) :)
Thanks for the info.
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You can fool others, but nothing you do is hidden from God.
JESUS rules :) :)
Although I had been aware of the wheel type cycling, I wasn't aware of the purpose other than wear and tear. Very Interesting that those wheels are indeed faster. It's amazing what squeakiness will do to change perception...
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-Dave Kochman
Pittsburgh
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-Dave Kochman
Pittsburgh
Agreed -
I recently made my first morning visit (23rd) and noticed the same thing. I thought for sure it was just a lack of "warming up" but apparently not. I found the squeak to be VERY noticable and annoying - throughout the ride.
I recently made my first morning visit (23rd) and noticed the same thing. I thought for sure it was just a lack of "warming up" but apparently not. I found the squeak to be VERY noticable and annoying - throughout the ride.
It's doubtful if there's any science being employed to the changing of the wheels. These are union laborers here, not rocket scientists. Maintenance probably replaces the wheels that melt with slightly more reliable and expensive wheels. They won't waste time or money on thought.
Well, an observation based on my wait and ride on Sunday (wait: 75 minutes; 2-train operation; TTR done for the day). I noticed that on most of the wheel sets, the leading road wheel is a metal hub with a tire; the trailing wheel is a plastic wheel. Funny thing about those plastic wheels...there is a deep groove down the center of the wheel. I had a thought about that...those wheels all have a concave running surface, so they are essentially double-flanged. I wonder if each of those is actually a pair of half-wheels with independent bearings on a single axle. That would allow for different rotation rates of the inner and outer wheel, which would be appropriate and necessary for the curved bits, but would not explain the squeaking.
Scott posed the suggestion that perhaps they were planning on replacing all of the wheels with the all-plastic wheels, but had not done so because the front wheels are harder to get to. That theory sounded good until we got to watch them replace a leading road wheel on the third axle of the blue train...a metal-hub wheel was replaced with another metal-hub wheel. "Hard to get at" isn't a good reason either...it's really kind of neat that Millennium Force has a removeable rail section on the storage track for servicing road wheels.
It seems that the white wheels are a harder material than the tires on the steel wheels. The ride has a strong vibration to it that I don't recall from my ride a month ago. But I timed it at about ten seconds faster (total circuit time) than it was a month ago.
The fact remains that Millennium Force will run three trains all day long, then yank off a train to change a wheel any time I happen to get in line....... :(
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
*** This post was edited by RideMan on 7/27/2000. ***
Scott posed the suggestion that perhaps they were planning on replacing all of the wheels with the all-plastic wheels, but had not done so because the front wheels are harder to get to. That theory sounded good until we got to watch them replace a leading road wheel on the third axle of the blue train...a metal-hub wheel was replaced with another metal-hub wheel. "Hard to get at" isn't a good reason either...it's really kind of neat that Millennium Force has a removeable rail section on the storage track for servicing road wheels.
It seems that the white wheels are a harder material than the tires on the steel wheels. The ride has a strong vibration to it that I don't recall from my ride a month ago. But I timed it at about ten seconds faster (total circuit time) than it was a month ago.
The fact remains that Millennium Force will run three trains all day long, then yank off a train to change a wheel any time I happen to get in line....... :(
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
*** This post was edited by RideMan on 7/27/2000. ***
The deal is that CP receives a new shipment of wheels from Intamin on almost a daily basis. They have been refining the composition of the wheels over and over again trying to find one that works best. At the beginning of the season the ride was running nylon wheels. These worked fine until it started to warm up out and the wheels began to heat up more and more. Tests were showing the wheels coming in with a temperature in upwards of 180 degrees and only cooling to maybe 150 before being sent back out again.
Intamin had promised the park that melting wheels would not be an issue and so they will continue to work with CP until the problem is resolved. This will, of course, all be at no cost to the park as the ride still isn't pain for. And Dave is right in that concave wheels are the latest development being experimented with.
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James Draeger
C G & C P
Intamin had promised the park that melting wheels would not be an issue and so they will continue to work with CP until the problem is resolved. This will, of course, all be at no cost to the park as the ride still isn't pain for. And Dave is right in that concave wheels are the latest development being experimented with.
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James Draeger
C G & C P
I was there the 25th and I noticed how squeaky the wheels where. I was hopeing that the ride didn't feel slower becuase of the squeaks and i was suprised to find out that it acually felt faster. I had much more airtime on the hills, it was great! Although it does make it a little hard to carry on a conversation while standing in line as the trains go screeching by.
Dave, how exactly does the half-wheel setup work? {benefit of such}
is this just the in-wheel equivalent of independent wheels, or just a compromise for the axle?
is this just the in-wheel equivalent of independent wheels, or just a compromise for the axle?
Let me re-iterate: I DO NOT know if they are using a half-wheel setup; that was mere speculation on my part based on the presence of a very deep groove down the center of the wheel. It may be a single-hub wheel with a very deep groove in the center for all I know.
With that out of the way, my thought was that they might possibly be using a set of half-wheels, each wheel with an independent bearing, to form the equivalent of a concave-surface wheel. When a wheel goes around a curve, it must slide slightly because the inner edge and the outer edge are moving at different speeds, as the distance covered is different at the inside from the outside. This is why automobiles have differentials: so the inside drive wheel can turn more slowly than the outside drive wheel. This is also why if you go around a hard corner, the front wheels of your car sometimes make noise...because if the turn is tight enough, the distance across the tread represents enough variation on the curve radius to require a bit of a twisting motion.
My theory was that by using a split wheel the hub could allow for different rotation rates on the inner and outer edges, because the contact points on the rail are not at the center of the rail, but at the edges. I would not expect the difference in rotation rates to be enough to cause problems, but any motion of the wheel other than a nice smooth roll is going to result in added friction and consequently added heat. Logically a split wheel might roll faster than a solid concave surface wheel, but it shouldn't be any faster than a solid flat-surface wheel such as the metal-hub wheels.
In all honesty, I think the split wheel idea is a bit far-fetched. But it does make some logical sense. And heck, if that's not what they're doing now, then maybe I just gave them the idea... :)
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
With that out of the way, my thought was that they might possibly be using a set of half-wheels, each wheel with an independent bearing, to form the equivalent of a concave-surface wheel. When a wheel goes around a curve, it must slide slightly because the inner edge and the outer edge are moving at different speeds, as the distance covered is different at the inside from the outside. This is why automobiles have differentials: so the inside drive wheel can turn more slowly than the outside drive wheel. This is also why if you go around a hard corner, the front wheels of your car sometimes make noise...because if the turn is tight enough, the distance across the tread represents enough variation on the curve radius to require a bit of a twisting motion.
My theory was that by using a split wheel the hub could allow for different rotation rates on the inner and outer edges, because the contact points on the rail are not at the center of the rail, but at the edges. I would not expect the difference in rotation rates to be enough to cause problems, but any motion of the wheel other than a nice smooth roll is going to result in added friction and consequently added heat. Logically a split wheel might roll faster than a solid concave surface wheel, but it shouldn't be any faster than a solid flat-surface wheel such as the metal-hub wheels.
In all honesty, I think the split wheel idea is a bit far-fetched. But it does make some logical sense. And heck, if that's not what they're doing now, then maybe I just gave them the idea... :)
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
"It's doubtful if there's any science being employed to the changing of the wheels. These are union laborers here, not rocket scientists."
You can doubt it if you want, but there IS a science to it because that's what one of the People Who Know(TM) told me.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 35
You can doubt it if you want, but there IS a science to it because that's what one of the People Who Know(TM) told me.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 35
Along with the annoying screach and clanging of the trains along the track, it didn't seem as smooth as before. That's my opinion, but my ride was still great!
AS OF WEDNESDAY, JULY 26
AS OF WEDNESDAY, JULY 26
Some of the wheels that are on the train are concave, however, not all of them. There are several that look identical from a distance but upon closer inspection you can see that they are flat just like wheels of the past. They are not using a half-wheel setup. These new wheels are able to stay cool and therefore they do not go bad as quickly, however, they are quite loud.
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