Stan Checketts on VertiGo...

It still never ceases to amaze me at how many coaster enthusiasts are materials experts and CEO-types.
lata,
jeremy
--who thinks most people would pass out if they had to take the Fundementals of Engineering exam

I agree with Tim - I'm really amazed that no one would think of this scenario, of the winds and the sway of the towers. It isn't some ground-breaking, never-before-observed occurrence of wind to destroy through sway. Not saying it's exactly the same situation, but I think most of us have seen video footage of that specific bridge swaying and breaking up in the wind. This doesn't take engineering nuclear physics. As far as this being prime bad press, I don't think it would be so. If the cause is as Checketts described, then getting that message out to the public (what happened, why and how it will be avoided in the present and future) and repairing the ride for operation in the comign season does far more for public confidence than not saying a word, officially, and simply quietly tearing down the ride. One is educational and comforting,t he other is sneaky and unknown. As a member of the GP, I highly prefer the first option, and I'm sure the majority of the GP would ride Vertigo again should the first option be exercised. This would also do alot for confidence in the same Vertigos in other parks.

On an educational note, I think it would make a great physics lesson for physics day. Just like how the swaying bridge is taught in physics classes.

-----------------
- Chris -
Computer Science - Ashland University
Witches' Wheel/Monster - 2002
3rd Shift Trash Removal - 2001

I would have to agree with Rob, on replacing the other two towers. The other two towers have probabaly been going through the same senario since the first fell. Knowing CP, I would think they would replace them unless they find that the other two are still structurally safe.

Whether they think they're safe or not, the towers need to be replaced. Would you feel comfortable riding a ride you know has the potential of collapsing, just like the other towers which were placed under similar stress?

*** This post was edited by Anonymous on 3/4/2002. ***

I think that since S&S came out to look at the towers and checked them out, they might have rigged up cables or something to help keep them in the 5 foot sway range since they were checked to be ok. Unless someone has seen the towers up close and saw no signs of anything to keep them from swaying. If there was nothing, then I would agree that the other two towers should be replaced too.

-------------
- Chris -
Computer Science - Ashland University
Witches' Wheel/Monster - 2002
3rd Shift Trash Removal - 2001

Those nylon screws on Power Tower are also there to provide a skid in case a wheel falls of the vehicle. Never knew you could tighten them down to hold the vehicle up. Sounds like the person who posted that the wind probably hit the tower's resonance frequency was dead on right. If they reopen Vertigo, I doubt this incident will have much effect on ridership. Most people have short memories and aren’t that into amusement park news as most of the people in this forum. They will see the ride, and that’ll create the desire in them to go on it.

-----------------
It's very hard to drink all day...
Unless you start first thing in the morning.

I'll be back on it opening day.... if I have to camp out for it..

-------------
June 11th, 2001 - Gemini 100
VertiGo Rides - 82 (2001)
Will there be more????

About the whole cable issue: if you look closely at any cable, there are small gaps between the individual wires... If water got in there and froze, it could expand, damaging the cable. Millenium Force and Space Spiral don't have these issues, as their cables have grease in them to fill in the gaps...
-------------
2000 - Cedar Downs, WildCat crews
2001 - ...too many to list :0)
2002 - Wave Swinger - Swan Boats TL

I agree with Hostyl... too many "experts" here.

I learned some interesting things though. First off, S&S winterized the ride themseleves, and S&S recommended the cables be removed. That said, it would seem the park isn't convinced that the failure was caused by this arrangement anyway, regardless of what Checketts said.

Second, the day the tower came down, winds were 5 to 10 mph, not 30 to 40 as he said.

Bottom line, seems like the park is waiting to find their own test results, and Stan spoke on something out of turn.

Brought to you by People Who Know(TM).

-----------------
Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

Wow - the mystery remains. Crazy. I am very eager to find out the truth!

I remember that day being particularly calm, but I remember a 60mph lake wind that occured a few days earlier. I think there was also 1 or 2 days in december with really high winds. Maybe the 5-10 mph winds that existeed that day were enough to take the crack the last little inch.

I also don't remember any days after that day where the winds were incredibly high by the lake.

-----------------
- Chris -
Computer Science - Ashland University
Witches' Wheel/Monster - 2002
3rd Shift Trash Removal - 2001

They probably are going to rebuild it anew. That's why some people have been reporting that the other 2 towers have been dismantled, perhaps.

*** This post was edited by thrillman on 3/6/2002. ***

Reporting incorrectly... they're still there.

-----------------
Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

There is no reason to replace a tower that isn't cracked.

These steel towers don't 'just fail.' It starts with a discontinuity in the steel, which propogates out to form a crack, the crack continues to propogate until it weakens the steel enough that it can no longer support its own weight. Then it 'just fails.' Point is, it doesn't fail without warning. If the other two towers aren't broken, there is no reason to fix them!

Assuming that what Checketts said is true, then flisk probably has the right idea.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

When you say "discontinuity" RideMan, do you mean like a flaw?

-------------
I was super before Superstew was cool!

*** This post was edited by Superstew on 3/5/2002. ***

A discontinuity would be any break in the surface. Could be a flaw, but not necessarily...could be a crack that doesn't go all the way through yet...basically, anything that might show up as an indication on an NDT examination.

It's often possible to predict where a crack is going to form. On a high-stress part, you'll see cracks start to propogate from any square corner, for instance, which is why airplane windows and doors are almost always rounded at the corners. Any element that concentrates stresses in the material is going to be an ideal place for stress cracking to happen. Take coaster track, for example. If the rail is going to crack, there is a good chance that the place where the crack will form is not out in the open between track-ties, but rather right at the weld where the rail attaches to the tie.

Now, in the case of VertiGo, I still don't know whether the failure was at a joint, adjacent to a stiffener or if it was not a pipe crack but rather a fastener failure. That information has not been released. But I wouldn't be surprised if a close examination indicates the break was adjacent to a collar at a bolted joint.....

If it wasn't, then I'd be more inclined to blame the materials used. But then, as I keep pointing out, I'm not an engineer... :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Not exactly related, but did you ever see that special on one of the Discovery networks about the design of the Boeing 777? They predicted, right down to a tiny measurement, when the wings would break from bending. That's computer modeling, baby!

-----------------
Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

I think if i go on anything it would be ripcoard i dont know about vertico

-----------------
Kelly the crazy coaster freak of cp
CP@LE RR 2000
White Water Landing 2001
WICKED TWISTER 2002
"Ahh When Is The Rain Going To Stop"
"Trumpy you can do stupid things...Its called evil kid"

Heh, I think I know what you're talking about, Jeff. Very interesting seeing that 777 break like a pretzel, and shaking the whole building in the process. I'd imagine, though, that the computer modeling would've cost a pretty penny.

-----------------
Tommy Penner - http://www.phuzzy-logic.net/~vx3k
"Yes. The Force is strong in that one." -- Stifler, AP2