Something doesn't compute here

The first thing I thought about when WT was announced to be 215ft. tall is, "wow, this thing must be way faster than S:UE if its 30+ ft. taller." But I scroll down a little further to learn that WT only goes 72mph compared to S:UE's 70mph.

First of it's hard to believe that you only need 2mph more velocity to to gain 35ft(going strait up none-the-less), but on top of that you have the fact that WT has more twist. More twist means more lateral friction. Thus even more velocity is needed. ** I'm taking into account that WT gets as close to the top as S:UE**

Something just isn't right to me. WT should need to go at least 75mph if not faster(calculated with friction constant the same as S:UE/ calculation not fully correct because I just used a vertical friction vector and didn't take into account the radius of the incline)

I guess my question is this.
Could they be using a raw speed and not have the official speed until testing begins??

I'm confused. If I knew the weight of the train, the size of the wheels and the exact specifications of the track I might be able to figure this out using differential equations but this just makes no sence to me right now.
-----------------
"Who needs drugs when you have Cedar Point."
MF 9
S:UE 8
edit: misstype

*** This post was edited by kakarot on 2/8/2002. ***

I talked to my Physics' teacher about this one and I have come up with this...

Wicked Twister height: 215 feet
Superman Ultimate Escape height: 180 feet

Wicked Twister Track Length: 2700 ft.
Superman Ultimate Escape Track Length: 2700 ft.

Notice how both Wicked Twister and Superman have the same track length. Which would led me to belive that Wicked Twister will have a shorter launch/station area.

Since Wicked Twister is 35 feet higher than Superman Ultimate Escape... do the math.
If WT has the same track length:

35 feet(front tower)+ 35 feet(back tower) = 70 feet.

But to get the proper speed calculations... you have to look at the center of gravity on the train. It would actually be 14 to 15 feet instead of 35 feet(those numbers are the center of gravity of the train) since you half to account for safety and the other half of the train.

Wicked Twister's launch/station area(give or take a few feet) will be about several feet shorter than Superman's launch area. But also the parks might have measured differnetly... i.e Cedar Point mesured from top of track to ground when SFWoA measured from top of track to station level.

Now about the extra miles per hour... Potential energy (height of track) and kinetic energy (speed of train):
m= mass g= gravity h= height v= velocity

Kinetic Engergy= .5*m*v^2
Potential Energy= m*h*g

Potential energy and kinetic energy are related functions of each other. For example... the height will go up faster then speed as you increase energy of the train(in this case the launch). Remember also, friction will slow down the train. Not to mention, since WT's train will be longer, it will also be heavier.

Hope that helps...

- Andrew Hyde(Who yes, does pay attention in Physics class now and then..)
http://www.experiencethepoint.com

*** This post was edited by Andrew on 2/8/2002. ***

With differential equasions you use weight as a function of speed (you can also do this with possision with a diff. equation.). As you may or may not know the train is heavier as it gets faster so in this case you have to use some integration. Set prime equations equal (S:UE and WT) and if both have the same incline radius then vertical friction should cancle out (in laymans terms since WT train is heavier it has more friction and vice versa with S:UE). I don't see whats compensating for this. Since both tracks are the same length than not very likely the radius of the incline will be a major factor in the equation.

Think about this too.

Magnum is 15 feet shorter, theoretically has way more vertical friction yet goes the same speed as WT. Whats happening?

-----------------
"Who needs drugs when you have Cedar Point."
MF 9
S:UE 8

kakarot, Yes I am well aware that heavier means faster but, the heavier the train the more juice it will need to get launched. Roller Coasters exchanges potential energy (height) and kinetic energy (speed). It doesn't matter the radius of the drop. Also Wicked Twister's trains will be quite heavier than Magnum's trains, thus more friction. Over 1350 per climb made by the train ther is a going to be a lot of friction and even a small difference as to how this friction effects speed of the train. Although the train is heavier, the train on WT will create more friction.

The train goes 3 MPH faster than the S:UE train. Using physics rules this would translates into a slightly higher height.

Look at S:UE at SFMM its 400 feet(but we will say 350 since it doesn't go all the way up) and it goes 100 mph, when MF is 50 or so feet shorter and it goes 7 mph less. Now look at Raptor is is 119 feet tall(veritcal drop) and it goes 57 mph, while Gemini which is 125 feet goes 60 mph. Thats a 6 foot height difference and a 7 mph speed difference. Yes I know the rides are differnet types, ditto for the trains... but it was just an example.

- Andrew Hyde
http://www.experiencethepoint.com*** This post was edited by Andrew on 2/8/2002. ****** This post was edited by Andrew on 2/8/2002. ***

*** This post was edited by Andrew on 2/8/2002. ***

I'm not convinced that WT is the same horizontal length. That would make it 70 feet shorter. I think it's actually longer. The distance between the supports is identical as far as I can tell and there are just as many of them from the station to the turn toward the sky. Factor in a train now that is two cars longer and you've got a longer station.

One track length or the other is incorrect, period.

-----------------
Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

I'm just gonna ride the thing.

You guys think too much on this stuff, just ride the rides, lol.
-----------------
----------
MF LAPS - 15
My Monkey The Movie. http://go.to/mymonkey

Hey you got to do something in the offseason... :)

- Andrew Hyde
http://www.experiencethepoint.com

(Jes casually notes the vast difference in the type of replies this thread recieves compared to the ones that were posted in my topic over on CoasterBuzz about a month ago on the exact same subject: http://www.coasterbuzz.com/forums/thread.asp?ForumID=11&TopicID=17210 . A lot less hostile, I would say!)

-------------
Jes
Webmaster, Jes's Roller Coasters
"Thank You Jeff Putz"

I think the length of either of these may not "compute." Wicked Twister may have at the most 350 feet of total track per spike (taking into account the curve up and twisting). This means that the horizontal length will be at least 2000 feet (2/5th of a mile)?

WOW

-------------
Later Wally

OK, they list total ride length, my bad.

2700/5= 540. Now thats short!

Who built the SU*E impulse

If it was intaman forget i posted this!

-----------------
Wicked Twister Rocks

It was...

-------------
VertiGo Rides - 82 (2001)
And looking forward to more!!!

Never mind...
-----------------
Wicked Twister Rocks