Some technical questions

Ok, after reading on virtual miday how the hydraulic launch works, a few questions come to mind.

The website is:
www.virtualmidway.com/rides/topthrilldragster_f2b.asp

1.) How many pumps (39) are required in this system?

2.) Also on the (I'll call it secondary side) how many pumps are there (40a)? As these pumps send the sled back to the launch position.

3.) Since main valve (41) failed earlier, I am guessing there is only one of these valves. Or are there more then one to release the pressure with less strain on just one valve?

That's all I can think of now.

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"This second hill is my favorite part of the ride. It is so Cool!"
TTD Status: "Contaminates in the system" S.K.

The problem is, to get accurate answers, you're gonna need to talk with someone who is familiar with the system as implemented at Cedar Point...

For the system to work, the number of pumps required will be determined by the total volume of fluid required and the capacity of each pump. As for the secondary system, assuming that the hydraulic motors are reversed to reverse the sled, that pressure could come from the main pump(s) or from a separate pump...or for that matter, they could also connect an electric motor to the winding drum and reverse it that way. It's one of those "more than one way to skin a cat" problems, so I think to get answers will require talking with someone from Cedar Point or from Intamin familiar with the system as built.

What we do know is that there are 32 motors operating on two planetary gear drives to drive the winding drum. With that in mind, we know that there must be 32 separate hoses running from the accumulators to the drive motors. We don't know the exact configuration. There could be a single launch valve feeding a manifold to drive those motors. Or there could be 32 different valves. But we also don't know how many accumulators are in the system, or even, for that matter, how many accumulators are required to perform the launch. It stands to reason, given the 30-second launch interval, that there might be more than one accumulator system, so that one can discharge while several others are preloading. Much like the reasoning for using multiple stations. But because there is only one winding drum, that means even more plumbing and even more valves.

Do we even know that the failure was of main valve (41)? It could also have been a failure of the mode valve (40), or of any number of bypass or routing valves not shown in the schematic diagram...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Ok, I am in the clear a little more on the operation of this beast, for lack of a better term (especially after really realizing what's going on). WOW, 32 hydraulic motors, that's alot. And yes, I was assuming that the main valve was defective, as the description was the "Main Valve has failed". But seeing the magnitude of this system it could be any valve. Two more questions..

1.) Why exactly don't we know this information? Is it a big tight lipped secret that no one wants out as to how this system works?? Or is it no one has asked these questions to CP? Or something else?

2.) I pretty much know the answer to this already, but... What is the difference in the hydraulic system between Xcelerator and TTD? I have not heard (other then overheating) of any problems with knott's system. This leads me to believe that the differences are likely where the problems lie. Or is that a safe assumption to make?

Thanks for the info, and good coastermania Q&A.

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"This second hill is my favorite part of the ride. It is so Cool!"
TTD Status: "Contaminates in the system" S.K.

Wow,a post worth reading and following,nice change of pace,and I wish Cedar Point would or could let us all in on more details, but I imagine anyone with information is really busy with the problem and dont have time to share.

Just the number of safetys and amount of wiring that we can see from the midway alone makes me wonder how this things going to work consistantly. after all, items wear out .

Also, Rideman, do you suppose it has critical and non critical safetys on items like the break fins,I mean, one error shuts the ride down, or do you think theres problems that come up during day that can wait till night to be attended to? (like say a sensor on a break fin isnt behaving)

From what I saw at the Coaster Solace at Knott's and from what I've seen from CP's official pictures, there really aren't too many differences between Xcelerator's launch and TTD's launch, except that TTD's is larger. TTD has 32 motors, or 16 per side. Xcelerator has fewer, either 8 or 12 per side.

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Scott W. Short
mailto:scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com

Yesterday I reveiwed the questions that were asked at Coastermania (See Coastermania transcript in the General forum) and I seem to recall there are some differences between Xcelerator and TTD's hydraulic systems, specifically in the cooling systems. Since these were built in to TTD, I also wonder if some of the issues could be related.

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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead
http://www.webtechnik.com/ebony/CPLady.htm

I take it you are not talking about the air conditioners on the building, but instead the actual cooling system for the Hydraulic system OldCPer?

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"This second hill is my favorite part of the ride. It is so Cool!"
TTD Status: "Contaminates in the system" S.K.

According to the CoasterMania transcript, Question #10, Dragster includes "some exotic oil-water cooling systems" in addition to the "100 tons of air conditioning" in the hydraulic room.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I know they use chilled lagoon water as part of the cooling system. I forget how cold it gets when they pump it in (I think it was slightly above freezing) but it is 85 degrees when it goes back to the lagoon.

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-Chris Woodard
"We got pop and Gatorade over here for $100 a bottle, so have your credit card ready. Seriously, the food here is so expensive, I just eat the condiments because I can't afford a meal." - MF que DJ 6/16/03