So you say we don't have a space problem?

just an average season pass holder's editorial

With #15 going on the beach (literally) I think its time that we need to rethink our old paradym that Cedar Point does not have a space problem.

Parks such as Kings Island and Magic Mountain are putting the heat on us in the roller coaster count. These parks and others have caught up by building coasters that take up less space and or building family,kiddie and junior coasters to boost their count. Instead Cedar Point has built a reputation for building the biggest. This has put them in a tough place becuase the bigger the rides get the more space they require. With the installation of Millennium Force Cedar Point used 13 acers to build the ride. Our competion has built more with less. I am willing to bet that the amount of acers Six Flags Worlds of Adventure has used to build its last 5 coasters is very close to 13 acers.

So what now? Well with rumors flying wild about 2002 even more rumors are starting to fly over 2003. The questions comes up where. #15 will be only the second coaster to be partially built "outside the park" with the Magnum being the other coaster. Where do we go from here and how can we NOT say that Cedar Point has a space problem?

With space being a premium where else can we go? These seem like the most obvious places.

a.) The current disaster transport site. This wharehouse takes up way too much space. This is the only part of the park that seems cursed. First the CP Cyclone, two wildcats, Jumbo Jets, Avalanche Run, and the current state of Disaster Transport. Need I say more.

b.) The area where Chaos, Trokia, and part of the lagoon take up. This area holds a lot a possibility for future expansion.

c.) The area between TC and WWL. The only part of the park that still has a lot of trees.

The longshots for future expansion

a.) The soak city parking lot. My vote is highly unlikely.

b.) The area behind frontier town, mean streak and planning and design. Highly unlikely because it is a very tight area.

c.) The current site of the boneyard leading over to Millennium Island. Once again a very small space but who knows.

d.) Now an interesting one is where the Cadillac Cars are and the Turnpike Cars are leading to the IMAX theater and Cedars. Any area that hasn't gotten much attention in regards for future expansion. One has to ask themselves why does Cedar Point have and need three types of car rides and two dodgems?

Last night I spent about 4hrs alone in the park shooting and the more I thought about it, the more I had a hard time saying that we don't have a space problem. I just surprises me that we are taking #15 on the beach.

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MF: 199
Magnum: 2118 (147 more)
I need a skyward time check!

GOOD PO!NT

*** This post was edited by Josh on 10/21/2001. ***

Whether or not people will admit it or not, I think there is a space problem. Perhaps not now, or next year, but what about in 10 years. I've already spoken to Dan about this just after he posted it, and we agreed that this could be a problem in the future.

While Six Flags WoA will still be growing in 10 years, Cedar Point will be researching how to put a coaster out on the lake. Look, this isn't RCT people...when you run out of land you can't just start building coasters above other coasters with the "phantom supports". Nor can you just demolish a coaster that doesn't get as much ridership as it did 25 years ago, and put another one up.

You also can't just keep moving rides around, because someday you won't have any other place to move them to. Sure "Cedar Point does not have a space problem" now, but what about later, when all the trees have been removed...when all of the somewhat expendable rides that remain will be ones that one would think they'd never raze (ie. Blue Streak, Mine Ride).

Personally, I think that CCMR, WWL, TC, and Corkscrew(yes, Corkscrew!) are all expendable rides. If you want to get wet there is a water park. If you don't want to pay to get into it, there is SRF. Mean Streak, although a huge investment, we all can agree that it is in some dire need of attention. That ride in itself is potentially taking up the space of three medium sized coasters, or even some larger coasters that only need a small footprint (ie. a Hulk type coaster with a steep climb and a track that intertwines itself like Mantis).

It may not be a "problem" now, but even Dan thinks there could be one in the future. How far into the future, well that's up to the CP gods.

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Michael McCormack '01: 34
Millennium Force: 45
Raptor: 55
Magnum: 99
Lifetime CP Count: 370

I do think there will be a space problem eventually, but they don't have one yet. I see that they are putting the next ride on the beach, and I agree it is sad that they MAY have sacraficed the boardwalk project for this ride (assuming they ever had one). CP has a unique attraction of being ON a great lake and they should try to use what they have. There are no other amusement parks anywhere near a great lake, and I think that Cedar Point should use this monopoly accordingly. CP is known for thier roller coasters and that is it. I think it would be wonderful if they could open up the beach again and become known not only for thier roller coasters, but ALSO what they were known for when they first started serving the public, a beach.

Now, if they really wanted space they could do something with the parking lot. The lot takes up lots of space, I'm not quite sure how much. If they just built a parking structure instead, it would free up lots of land for use. On the other hand, it would destory one of the CP highlihts of comeing over the causeway and seeing the coasters. To solve this possibly they could go underground and build a parking structure there, kina like in Sim Tower.

I guess if I want a good view of the beach, now I'll just have to get it on Magnum.

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I love fall...
The cool, brisk air...
The brightly colored leaves...
The amusement park announcements...

I have just read and kept quiet when the "space problem" debate has gone on here, but now here is my 2 cents.

The reason people disagree about the issue is because it depends on what your definition of "space problem" is (gee I sound like Clinton). You could look at the relatively large anount of land CP has and think of all of the ways they could cram stuff in and say they have no problem. On the other hand you could look at how ugly parks become when rides are piled up on top of each other and the whole place looks like nothing but steel and concrete.

If your personal sensability is not bothered by many things in a small space and you don't think it matters if the whole place eventually looks like a parking lot with rides set up in it, then you don't think CP has a problem. If you like Knoebels approach to the park experience, if you believe that the atmosphere offered by the Western Cruise, train and trail of 20 years ago is a valuable asset to CP, then they have a problem. It is a matter pf personal perspective.

I don't think CP will ever have a space problem because over the years coasters and building will get old and be worn to the point that they will have to be taken out therefor freeing more space up. As for buildings, look at the Facination story, they couldn't find replacement parts so they changed it into a resturant. Just what I think...
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2001 MF Count: 10

I think Tim is right on. Blackpool Pleasure Beach over in England has close to the same number of rides as Cedar Point in what looks like at least half of the space. The rides are quite literally stacked on top of each other.
It is possible to continue building at CP but sooner or later it will take on a similar look as BPB. Some other areas where building could take place...not mentioned above:
1. The "Gold Dorms" behind Power Tower and Corkscrew. This is a large are that would be usable if the buildings were torn down. I am certain they will be as housing continues to be built on the mainland.
2. The Cedars Dorm. A pathetic building for the employees to live in that, if raised, would provide a large space for expansion.
3. The Main Parking Lot. A couple of things you could do here. Build a ride out into the lot with a station in the park ala Magnum. Push back the main gate and build garages like Universal Florida.
4. Build a resorts garage freeing up space back by Sandcastle for Soak City Expansion or by Breakers for Challenge Park expansion.
You'll notice that none of these ideas involve building a parking lot on the mainland and a monorail. My point is that there is more that can be done and I would say ten years is a conservative estimate as to when space will be a significant issue.

*** This post was edited by Chief Wahoo on 10/22/2001. ***

I think Chief Wahoo is right-on with the parking garage idea. When space is tight, like in a big city, you need to start building vertical. You could build a 4 story garage over one-quarter of the current lot and reclaim three-quarters of the lot for expansion. Or maybe the staff dorms by the Wildcat could be rebuilt as tower. There are always creative ways to ‘create’ more space.

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Bob M.

Expand into the parking lot before destroying the trees around WWL and TC. I was there yesterday, and I would be VERY upset if they ever touched this area of the park. SAVE THE TREES.

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MF...taking thrills to new heights!

I don't think Cedar Point has a space problem, now or in the future. Even though MF took up 13 acres, there still is plenty of space around the island to move most of the flat rides in the park. Frontier town has a lot of space behind the Frontier Inn, the Antique cars, etc. The front half of the park too has a huge amount of space in the Catering Picnic area.

I belive that #15 is on the lake not for a space reason, but for the fact that the Lake and the view of the Lake is going to add to the thrill of the attraction.

Also #15 is being built in an area of the park that is underused and needs to be revitalized. That's the main reason for it's location I would think. Also, it's pretty obvious what #15 will be, but that still leaves a large area for development. I wonder what else they are planning, and if they are putting more stuff in for next year.

*** This post was edited by Pete on 10/22/2001. ***

The double ferris wheel... the funhouse... the wax museum... Noah's Ark... Cedar Point has long been adept at cleverly subtracting attractions to make room. Great America or Worlds of Adventure, for example, may seem to have lots of space, but they're hampered by existing roads and highways, zoning restrictions etc. Cedar Point DOES have a space problem, but no more of a space problem than any other theme park, excepting the parks at Walt Disney World.

*** This post was edited by slithernoggin on 10/22/2001. ***

Since it's been reported already that Michigan's Adventure is getting a Dodgems from CP, I wonder WHICH one is going? And, what is going in it's place?

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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead

Shame on you, Dan, for bringing this up!

Cedar Point does not have a space problem(TM)!

Seriously, if you are concerned about room, you're not looking hard enough.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

And shame on you Jeff for not closing this;)

CP DOES NOT HAVE A SPACE PROBLEM...END OF STORY... Look at how the park has changed over the years...add a few, take a few away...some of this will continue of course.

The "look of the park" will continue to change. Before Magnum was built the SAME questions were asked...Before GEMINI was built, the same questions were asked...Where and how will CP GROW.

CP has a number of advantages over any competitors, one, NO LOCAL ZONING PROBLEMS (ie. SFWOA)

Also, you would be utterly amazed at the amount of property CP OWNS which is not currently part of the park. (start at Cleveland Road and the causeway and look NORTH)

Please...CP DOES NOT HAVE A SPACE PROBLEM. End of story and end of this topic....

Closed topic.