Smoking Policy Suggestion

redsfan said:

This thread is stupid. What do you and your wife do when you walk around your block and pass someone else who is smoking? Or outside of Wallmart?

…

But the smoking laws that the state has imposed only pertain to people who are working within a building and are exposed to 2nd hand smoke. It has to do with the dangers of long term exposure to 2nd hand smoke during your occupation. It is not a law that imposes penalties to smoking outdoors. There is no penalty under the current Ohio law that penalizes outdoor smoking.

… to actually throw someone out of the park for smoking outside would probably not be within the parks best interest. I do not think you can go to Cedar Point and as a guest, police what other people do. As you are just a guest yourself.

… what do you do when you aren't at Cedar Point and someone smokes outside. I could imagine the response if you told someone outdoors in a public environment that their smoking bothered you. They would probably not be very receptive. I would also wonder why you would be invading their space if it bothered you that much.

I am sorry that you think this thread is stupid, but I suppose you are entitled to your opinion.

With that being said, your post is flawed in both its assumptions and its apples to oranges comparison on several points. I’ll try to take them in order. First, if my wife and I were walking around our block or in the parking lot outside of Walmart and encountered one or more smokers, we would actually do EXACTLY what you state. We would pass them – end of story, problem solved, thank you and good night. But the problem is that neither my neighborhood nor the local Walmart are nearly as popular or as crowded as Cedar Point. It is quite simple to cross the street or walk in a wide arc around a smoker in either of those locations and never be impacted by their LEGAL CHOICE to smoke. That is exactly what my wife and I would do in those circumstances.

Try to do that at Cedar Point on a busy day (where you have just as much right as any other patron to try to get from Point A to Point B in the most efficient route) and tell me how successful you are. You have limited walking lanes in the midways and throngs of people moving in at least two (and sometimes even three or four directions). On a slow day, it might be possible to avoid an offending smoker, but on a busy day when the smoker or smokers are walking in the same direction that we are and there is limited to zero chance of passing around them = your implied solution is worthless and we suffer the consequences of another person’s decision to break a rule.

Your point about the smoking laws and who they pertain to has absolutely ZERO relevance to this thread. Ohio’s smoking ban has nothing to do with Cedar Point’s own policy. Cedar Point can (and most relevant to this thread they have) set a more restrictive smoking policy than the state law. So while you are correct that there is no penalty under state law for outdoor smoking, we aren’t dealing with state law here, we are dealing with Cedar Point’s policy. So thanks for the legal analysis, but you’re not a lawyer and this is not a courtroom.

For the record, let me state that I do not personally advocate removal from the park for violation of the smoking rules, but I do expect the rules to be enforced when violations are observed by people with authority. With that being said, and as you clearly state - I am not there to police the policy as a park guest. Some thread responders have stated that they have seen park officials instruct smokers to put out their cigarettes and have directed them to smoking areas. Great! I have not witnessed that myself, but I am glad to hear that it does happen.

I’m not sure what gave the impression that I would approach a smoker in public and “invade their space” to declare that their smoking bothered me. I would never think about doing that because in 99.9% of the time, smoking outdoors is perfectly legal and smokers are well within their right to light up and puff away. The only exception that I can think of (other than in private areas like Cedar Point where they have set their own more restrictive policy) is in the areas immediately outside of store/restaurant/etc. entrances. This prohibition is routinely violated at many of the stores or businesses that I frequent. But when I encounter smokers in these areas, I simply hold my breath until I get inside. Is in inconvenient and uncomfortable for me to do so? Absolutely. Do I choose to do it anyway? You bet! Again, the difference here is that I know I will get past the smoke and reach fresh air once I hit the business interior area. (Often the vestibule, if they have one, is still a danger zone). But in the Cedar Point midway scenario, I could be stuck for a hundred yards or more before I can get away from the offenders. Unfortunately, I simply cannot hold my breath for that long.

With that being said, it really just comes down to common courtesy and following the rules, which many smokers are very aware of and do a tremendous job observing, while a few others are really selfish jerks who don’t give a damn about anyone else and never consider the people that they TRULY DO ADVERSLY AFFECT by their selfishness. I am not going to apologize for being frustrated as hell about it – especially when there is a policy in place to address it.

With all that being said, :::phew::: If my long-winded reply comes across as being snarky, I will apologize for that. It was not necessarily my intention when I started, but I do tend to take it personally when I get called out as being stupid. So flame away. And Jeff please close the thread if I’ve taken it in an unproductive direction.

Rusty that was well put. Congratulations! And you have not taken this thread in an unproductive direction.

^ "With that being said, it really just comes down to common courtesy and following the rules, which many smokers are very aware of and do a tremendous job observing, while a few others are really selfish jerks who don’t give a damn about anyone else and never consider the people that they TRULY DO ADVERSELY AFFECT by their selfishness. I am not going to apologize for being frustrated as hell about it – especially when there is a policy in place to address it."

Well said Rusty.

I put smokers, line jumpers, and people who don't use turn signals all in the same category. Selfish, righteous, ignorant LOSERS.....Just my humble opinion.

campfreak06 said:

I put smokers, line jumpers, and people who don't use turn signals all in the same category. Selfish, righteous, ignorant LOSERS.....Just my humble opinion.

May I add LITTER-BUGS to this list?!

Ah yes. The people who leave trash everywhere so ushers have "job security"

Ah, the 80's. Two parents smoking in the car, all the windows up, and no seatbelts.

Even better: The 70's, where you can find photos of your doctor holding a cigarette in one hand and you in his other, right after delivering you.

Rusty said:

Like I said, I don’t know if it would be practical to find a place near EVERY bathroom, but if they at least managed to designate 75-80% and put up some well informed signs I think it would go a long way toward fixing the problem. There will always be some who ignore the rules (not just the smoking rules either), but I would bet this would greatly reduce violations.

I too am greatly annoyed by inconsiderate smokers and, especially this season, vapers.

But I think there's a fundamental flaw in the idea of placing smoking areas near restrooms. Everyone has to use the restroom at some point, which would mean everyone would be forced to be in proximity to a smoking area at some point. I was planning on listing all the bathrooms that wouldn't work well for this, but in fact I think the only suitable location would be the one you mention - near the Celebration Plaza train station. All the other bathrooms simply don't have enough space to allow restroom guests to avoid the inevitable smoke cloud.

Ideally, because smoking is becoming less common every year, the park will soon just outright prohibit it throughout the park, and anyone caught smoking will simply be ejected.

djDaemon said:

Ideally, because smoking is becoming less common every year, the park will soon just outright prohibit it throughout the park, and anyone caught smoking will simply be ejected.

I sure hope so, since it's extremely evident that so many smokers refuse to use the designated smoking areas and just light up wherever they feel they want to. Just one example this year was the crowded patio next to the Corral.

djDaemon said:
But I think there's a fundamental flaw in the idea of placing smoking areas near restrooms.

I agree and it reminds me of that 70's song "Smokin' in the Boys Room".

It will be a while before the park will get rid of smoking areas. After all does the park really want to alienate the roughly 15% of guests who do smoke? Remember, this number is a national average, and the number is a lot higher and lower in certain markets. Here is a map with smoking rates by county for the entire country: http://time.com/3832031/smoking-map/ (It is from 2012 and the national average smoking rate has come down a couple percent since then.)

Over time, I hope parks will re-evaluate the positions of smoking areas. For instance placing them in a recessed area instead of right next to the restroom door would be nice. Or in the case of Kings Dominion, if you put in a stage for skeleton crew, move the existing smoking area somewhere else.

I don't know, I feel like they've done a pretty good job with placement. The only one that comes to mind as being regularly annoying is the one near Panda Express, due to it's proximity to a popular eating area.

^

That was going to be another suggestion of mine, but I didn't want to seem to be "piling on" against the smokers. But since you raised the point - there are many times when the Panda Express outdoor seating is completely full and could really use expansion. Ideally, they should expand the table seating over into that smoking area -- which IS way too close to the eating area as it is currently situated. Since I didn't have an immediate idea of where to relocate the smoking area, I didn't raise the issue, but since you raised it = those were my thoughts.

As to your other point about not wanting smoking areas by all the restrooms... my idea was not necessarily putting it RIGHT NEXT to the bathrooms, but maybe someplace within several hundred feet. I just thought that plus a few signs would alleviate some [not all] of that close proximity smoking.

Unlike all the people posting in the thread of where to relocate Ripcord, I admittedly haven't looked at this idea in detail with satellite imagery placement -- it was just conceptual. So it very well may be a poor plan in the grand scheme.

Kill two birds with one stone:

Replace all the 3 point challenges with smoking areas.

Some people have no respect for others or for the rules. Or they don't believe they apply to them. So how can you possibly move the designated and make the problem go away. I apologize for being insulting. Not my intent. Instead of using the word stupid I should have said your idea is not very good. Or you idea does not solve the problems you address.
I am not part of the problem. There are plenty of designated smoking areas in the park. Cedar point cannot limit their sales to only people with respect. I see it as your only option is to suck it up or stay home. I would suggest you still come to the park. Am I impressed by the present status of the world and the actions of people? Not if I take off my blinders. But I would rather focus on the good things you see and have hope than worry about 2 or 5 percent of the population that are disrespectful.
I've been up here all weekend and haven't seen the 1st person smoking outside of the areas they can within the parks gates.. Of course I'm not looking for them either. But I know it happens. It's my opinion that the rampant smoking is somewhat exaggerated.

Here all weekend too, park is packed today and I haven't seen one person violating the smoking rules.

Does it happen, yes. But it's definitely not rampant as you pointed out.

I think this is like my pet theory about bicyclists vs motorists. I can cite example after example where a motorist nearly hit me, cut me off, ran a stop sign or red light while I was in the intersection while riding my bike.

Can I tell you how many motorists stopped at a stop light, gave me the right of way or stayed out of the bike lane* on any given day? No.

I think bicyclists and motorists remember the people who act illegally, and don't notice all the law-abiding bikers and drivers.

And I suspect that's the case here. People notice the few people flouting the smoking rules and don't notice how many people are quietly sitting in designated smoking areas enjoying a smoke.

*Chicago has designated bike lanes on most major streets.

I did not see anyone lighting up Friday night outside of designated area's. I was in the park from early entry to about 3:30pm yesterday. I did not see as many smokers outside of the designated area's smoking as I would typically during the summer, but I did experience quite a few yesterday. Most still appear to try to hide the fact of what they are doing.

However, I did come across two 20 something year old guys smoking as they were walking along. It appeared as if they knew they weren't supposed to be smoking were they were, but were drawing attention to themselves for that purpose. People like that I cannot stand. The folks that at least try to hide the fact that they are smoking outside a designated area, I can live with.

I understand smoking is a habit. I know the dangers of second hand smoke (relative in medical profession). No matter where I am (whether it be at Cedar Point or my place of employment where smokers huddle within feet of the building entry- even though Ohio law says smokers need to stay 30 feet? from building entrance) I just hold my breath until I am clear of said smoker/cloud of smoke.

For me it comes down to the state of the world we live in (I have now been around for 50 years). I see more and more people put forth very little effort into consideration for how their own actions effect others in today's world. (This is not limited to people who smoke).

Rules/laws are made for a reason, I do not understand why more and more individuals feel that these laws/rules don't apply to them?

I would suspect smoking areas to be moved to right outside the park entrances first before being totally abolished. Being a child of the 80s it doesn't really bother me that much (the smell of cigarette smoke is strangely nostalgic actually). But I understand it's a public health policy and there are people who are blatantly being a-holes and doing whatever they want.