Red Train

I was actually talking strickly dry mode which would be "pseudo rolling block." Dragster doesn't actually have a regular rolling block that MF does, I was using it as an example towards what dry mode actually does.

Move and multi move refers to how many trains are allowed to move in wet mode. Move wasn't used very much as it only allows one train to move at a time. Multi move lets multiple trains run at the same time. The difference that multi move has in reference to dry mode is that it allows each train to proceed to the next regular block when it's clear.

To sum it up: move is fall alseep, multi move has a couple trains running around, dry mode is hold onto your pants and watch all the trains move.

Hmmm this sounds like a game. Ive been experimenting with making quick stand alone games recently. I might try to make a small game like this. TTD operator. Move the trains and get the best loading unload times and run intervals. Then for fun have a few rollbacks and slow loading people thrown into the mix. Might be entertaining for a few minutes. Does anybody have some pictures of the controls in the operators booth?

For a few minutes, try hours of fun for a freak like me. That sounds really cool.

Maybe they can leave the Spoliers and wheels on the the red train sice they dont use it.

Yeah, and put it on display!

Very unlikely, but still a cool thought.

You could have a blinking red light that goes off all the time then a screen that displays errors. To reset hit the R key. Most of the time they reset, but sometimes it takes a few tries to get it to clear.

Minor example.

Weather is too good to run... reset
...
...
...
Accumulator pressure below 270 bar... reset
...
...
Train too slow at track... reset
Train too slow at track... reset
...
....
....
...
...
Dry mode enabled...
Dry mode disabled... reset reset reset
...
...
...
Dry mode enabled...
...
Pinball round 1 ... reset
...
...
...
Pinball round 2... reset
...
Pinball round 3 struck out... Fatal error... reset...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
Just making suring you were still there
...

Hmmm......

I don't understand this talk of them not using the red train. They didn't just put the red train off and use the others. They picked different trains every day to leave off the track. The red train just wasn't operational untill June last year.

Wow, cited and complimented in the same thread, I'm honored. Ohio State, thank you for the compliment, but I wouldn't put my intelligence level above your own capability; I merely had enough education, information, and training to ask meaningful questions while working 3am shifts with the ride's engineers. For those who want the original description of my concept to improve capacity, go to my post in the middle of this page.

http://www.pointbuzz.com/cpplace.aspx?mode=thread&TopicID=14259&page=2

On a side note, there is a lot of information in this thread that can make people knowledgable to the point where they could unknowingly transmit incorrect information because they haven't been given the means to apply it. For instance, there is mention of 3 modes in this thread but no mention of any of the others or the fact that those modes can be combined under certain conditions. I can just imagine the conversations that will occur in the queue next year diagnosing the ride's capacity issues between guests who read this site.

Finally, WHAT?!?!?! When did the simple fact that the ride was just in Automatic Mode with no additional modes enabled become "MOVE" mode? There is no mode called "MOVE" mode.

Anybody up for single operator mode?

Patrick I was thinking the exact same thing about people reading this topic and misunderstanding how the ride actually works. I just couldn't think of a good way to put it into words like you did.

Single operator mode sure would make things easier at times, Amy J would've loved it last year. Her biggest pet peeve was trying to clear blocks with no one paying attention.

So how about The Ohio State Buckeye Train ... I mean the Red Train.

Excuse me, what is dry mode?

I am interested to see if 6 train operation realy is faster than 5 since I got 2 front seat rides in 45 min. on a saturday afternoon in Aug. I am all for raising copacity but even with 5 trains it has one of the fastest moving lines in the park, given no break-downs.
*** Edited 4/13/2005 10:24:46 PM UTC by RaptorFan***

I'll give you the fact that it's a fast moving line. I mean I would know. One time, the line was backed up to the vending machines and I started to fool around with my cell phone. Next thing I know I'm on the ramp.
But technically Gemini has the largest capacity and Dragster has the third lowest.
We can thank CP and Intamin for their ingenuity for figuring out a real good working block system.

Wrong. Over the past couple of seasons, Dragster gets around 1,000 pph on a good day. To me, that does not result in a fast moving line when compared to something like Magnum or Raptor. Perhaps you were fooling a bit too much with your cell phone.

Magnum's line is very fast when running near capacity of 2000 pph. The people in line almost never stop untill they get on platform. Then again, it's almost rare that the line extends far out of the station anymore. Raptor comes in close second at 1,800 pph. MF's capacity is 1300 pph, with seatbelt and loose article issues it runs as low as half capacity. It's rare that it runs near capacity anymore. 2001 brought the closest to capacity over the season.

Dragsters capacity without downtime is 1200 pph. Seatbelt and loose article issues bring it down nearly as much as MF. Add this to it's high rate of downtime and you don't have very good capacity.

Let me explain the modes real fast in the simplest terms possible.

1) Automatic mode: trains move... automatically

In addition to auto mode there are:

A) Multi train mode: More than one train is permitted to move at one time.

B) Dry mode: trains literally move faster.

C) Both A & B: Trains move faster, more than one train permitted to move at one time, and the two trains are permitted to occupy one block.

Note: B and C have not been used since 2003. They were used while loading the last 5 weekends of operation that year as well as 6 train operation. With 6 trains, the capacity is lower than 5 trains unless B or C are active.

Moving in "pairs" was never the intent of TTD. I dated it back to Jeff attempting to simplify operation with 6 trains shortly after TTD's announcement.

TTD 120mph said:
But technically Gemini has the largest capacity and Dragster has the third lowest.
We can thank CP and Intamin for their ingenuity for figuring out a real good working block system.

I'm not sure Gemini has the highest capacity anymore since they removed the two trains. If last year's numbers were any indication, both Magnum and Raptor blow Gemini out of the water for capacity now. The order for coaster ridership in 2004 was the following:

Raptor (edging out Magnum due to early Joe Cool openings)
Magnum
---2 million---
Gemini
Iron Dragon
Millennium Force
---1.5 million---
Corkscrew
Mantis
Wicked Twister
Disaster Transport
---1 million---
Mean Streak
Mine Ride
Top Thrill Dragster
---900k---
Blue Streak
Wildcat
Woodstock Express

If Dragster ran consistently, I think it would come in between Millennium Force and Corkscrew. Dragster and MF have very similar capacities - probably between 900-1000 per hour on average once you factor in all the seatbelts and stuff. By contrast, Magnum and Raptor both get more than 1500 per hour on average.

MDOmnis said:
I'm not sure Gemini has the highest capacity anymore since they removed the two trains.

You could be right. *** Edited 4/15/2005 12:01:19 AM UTC by TTD 120mph***

ForgottenEE,

Close, but not quite ;) This is how train movements relate to the three modes that can be used during normal operation with guests.

Automatic Mode: One train moves at a time. Example: Load 1 train moves to Launch block and parks. Once the Load 1 train parks in Launch, the Load 2 train moves to Transfer block and parks. Once the Load 2 train parks in Transfer, the Unload 1 train moves to the Load 1 block and parks...etc.

Dry Mode: When enabled alone in Automatic Mode, this mode increases the rotation frequency of the drive wheels by approx. 30%.

Multi-Move: When enabled alone in Automatic Mode, this mode allows trains to move as soon as the next down-track block is available. Example: Load 1 train moves towards the Launch block; as soon as the Load 1 block is clear, the Load 2 train begins to move towards the Transfer block; as soon as the Load 2 block is clear, the Unload 1 train begins to move towards the Load 1 block...etc.

Combination of Multi-Move and Dry Mode: When enabled together in Automatic Mode, this combination increases the rotation frequency of the drive wheels by approx. 30% and allows trains to move once the train in the next down-track block is 10 pairs of proximity sensors ahead.

***NOTE: While this post describes train movements for the various modes, it does not provide the required operational parameters for enabling these modes. At best, the reader who is not trained in controls fro TTD can use this information to identify what mode TTD is operating in; but not why it is operating in that mode.***

Also, even with the combination of Multi-Move and Dry Mode (the highest capacity operating condition), 5 trains still has a higher capacity than 6 trains. Tests on the ride in this operating condition with no mechanical breakdowns and no rider interactions yielded 62 launches in 1 hour for 5 trains and only 59 launches in 1 hour for 6 trains. Therefore, with the current block setup, the maximum theoretical capacity for TTD occurs with 5 train operation.

I stand corrected.

MDOmnis said:

TTD 120mph said:
But technically Gemini has the largest capacity and Dragster has the third lowest.
We can thank CP and Intamin for their ingenuity for figuring out a real good working block system.

I'm not sure Gemini has the highest capacity anymore since they removed the two trains. If last year's numbers were any indication, both Magnum and Raptor blow Gemini out of the water for capacity now.

A couple of things...

You are working with "total people moved." I normally count "operating capacity" which makes the assumption that all the seats are filled and none are out of service (but I base my measurements on actual dispatch intervals, so it's reasonably accurate). Based on that, Magnum will CONSISTENTLY move 1,728 PPH and Raptor will CONSISTENTLY move 1,536 PPH. They both have 75-second intervals, they both have crews that can hit a 75-second interval almost 100% of the time, and the difference is in the number of seats on the train.

You note the loss of capacity on Gemini, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Looking at total numbers doesn't tell you a lot because it doesn't take into account the longest and shortest waits, and the fact that Gemini often operates at reduced capacity (2 trains instead of 4), and it doesn't show what happens when the ride gets busy.

I've clocked Gemini at 3,400 PPH with six trains. You would expect that four trains would take the capacity down to between 2,200-2,400 PPH, which is still more than either Magnum or Raptor. But last season it didn't work that way. I don't know what the problem was, but in all the times I rode Gemini last season, I never got a ride where my train didn't stop on the safety brake. That means the dispatch interval was longer than the 2:42 ride time, which means an hourly capacity of less than 1,400 PPH. That's right, Gemini was moving fewer people with four trains than Magnum could move with three!

Then there was Millennium Force. I watched that thing for an hour (while having lunch) and came up with an hourly capacity based on average dispatch interval of less than 700 PPH.

Operationally, from what I saw, 2004 was a terrible year for Cedar Point. Intervals went to hell on Gemini, Mine Ride, and Millennium Force, to the point that I drastically curtailed my riding on Millennium Force and Gemini because the lines weren't moving. Gemini is a great ride, but who wants to wait 45 minutes to ride it? :(

--Dave Althoff, Jr.