Parking lot Solar Panels/Shade Structure

It has gotten better.

For like 50 years the efficiency was stuck around 15%. Then years ago they made significant progress and they've been going up ever since, over 40% now in the lab. But the problem has never been the technology, it's always been the economy of scale. The more you make of something, generally the cheaper it is. Manufacturing techniques are better, plants are bigger, etc. (And of course, China beat us to the punch, because the fossil fuel lobbyists successfully made renewables the devil.)

My plant has generated $7,500 of electricity in the last five and a half years. I paid about $17k after the tax rebate for the system. I'm looking at an 11-year-ish return on investment, after which it's all free energy. Assuming rates continue to rise, it'll actually be sooner than that. The system is warranted for 20 years, and obviously should last longer than that.

The EV transition is a matter of will, not technology. See Norway...

I think the problem in America is found at about the 1:40 mark where she says "we are pushing cars basically on the public". That is a hard sell here. Just read the comments on any Yahoo article about EVs. Folks here need to be made to feel like the choice to go EV is theirs. Then they will happily adopt it.

I think that there's something more sinisterly dumb going on here. A segment of the population has been drawn into thinking that it's somehow bad, or the usual climate denier nonsense. You can't stop people from being willingly stupid. I saw someone the other day on some article drilling someone else with ignorant things like, "Hope you can pay to replace the battery!" I mean, how is that myth still even a thing? One of ours is 6-years-old, and I think the range tops off around 275 or something. Average daily driving is at worse 50 or 60 miles.

I don't think there's anything sinister going on, and it's pretty wrongheaded to suggest that resistance to EVs is based on willful stupidity or whatever . The fact of the matter is that EV charging infrastructure is nowhere near as ubiquitous as IC fueling infrastructure, and that's not going to change anytime soon. And while I'm sure EV owners can and will whip out their maps to diagram how it's possible to make long trips without making that many sacrifices relative to an IC-powered trip, the fact of the matter is that there are still concessions to be made. And until that changes, the EV argument will be somewhat of an uphill battle, even if the EV-vs-IC car prices were the same, which they are not.

Just a quick question for any EV drivers that may be on here. I am comfortable judging how much further I can stretch my trip by looking at my gauge on the dash of my gasoline powered vehicle. That is to say for example, if I'm just a smidge above E I know I can still venture onto the CP Causeway and even risk sitting in a backup, and still make it comfortably to Murphy's at Walmart where it's usually the cheapest. So, as I am unfamiliar, do the EV's have a suitable reliable "miles remaining" feature so that it doesn't die while on the Causeway? I do recall seeing charging stations at the Meijer's lot.

djDaemon:

it's pretty wrongheaded to suggest that resistance to EVs is based on willful stupidity or whatever

Have you read the comments of any EV article on Yahoo? There is a lot of willful stupidity or whatever going on.

Both of our EV's show miles remaining. Traffic jams are usually no issue as your not using much power if not moving. Only power needed is for heat or AC which is pretty low versus idling in an IC vehicle.

We haven't had any issues doing 6 hour road trips to Vegas or San Diego from the Phoenix area except slow charging at the Kingman EA charger.

Yahoo still exists? :-P

Yes, I'm aware that there's a lot of willful stupidity in the comment sections. But the whole "EVs are superior and anyone else who thinks otherwise is stupid" is a very tired, and flatly inaccurate, take.

In fact, to jimmyburke's question of a reliable range indicator, I have an anecdote. I was in Boston recently for work, and with my flight to BOS arriving in the evening, the rental pavilion was down to the last few available rides. Aside from the standard Hondoyotas they had, there were also a half dozen EVs, which are normally a hot item so are otherwise not available to business travelers such as myself. However, I opted for a boring old dinosaur juice guzzler. Not because I'm a stupid, gullible moron who hates the planet, but because it was mid-January in Boston, and I didn't feel like dealing with the variable of having to think about range given the cold weather (EV range is significantly lower in cold weather), my unfamiliarity of the area, etc.

I love anecdotes relative to the other discussion about averages.

Regarding willful stupidity, I mean, you've seen social media, right? The issue would never even have become political were it not for lobbyists for the fossil fuel industry, and auto makers until they saw Tesla cutting into their market share, making it political. There have been hundreds of articles written about this over the years.

jimmyburke:

do the EV's have a suitable reliable "miles remaining" feature

The algorithms are better than they used to be, but they also have the same characteristics as fuel gauges. When it's "full," it can't possibly know how or where you're driving, and whether it's gas or electric, that affects the outcome. Driving 100 miles uphill in snow at 70mph is not the same as driving 100 miles downhill at 50mph in the summer (and technically, the latter will cause you to end with more charge than you started). But when you get closer to "empty," yes, it's pretty accurate. Our first EV was a Nissan Leaf with a capacity of like 60 miles, and we pushed that to zero at least twice. Hard to say where it would have turned off.

djDaemon:
The fact of the matter is that EV charging infrastructure is nowhere near as ubiquitous as IC fueling infrastructure, and that's not going to change anytime soon. And while I'm sure EV owners can and will whip out their maps to diagram how it's possible to make long trips without making that many sacrifices relative to an IC-powered trip, the fact of the matter is that there are still concessions to be made.

Two things... Your first statement is exactly what I'm talking about. Do you know how often most EV owners use public charging infrastructure? If they have a garage, the answer is almost never. You leave every single day with a "full tank," and the average American driver goes about 37 miles per day. Pretty sure the 250+ mile range is going to cover that.

It is not at all a matter of fact that there are concessions. I've had five (about to be six since Disney killed our older one) EV's in my life now, and I've not had to make any concessions at all, unless you count the fact that the second one was really expensive (but it was really nice). If I have to do a road trip, the car says, hey, stop here for this long, and you're good. That's usually the point at which I have to pee, so that's fine. There's one we've been to a number of times on the way to see my in-laws, behind a Whole Foods (love the hot bar), and by the time I'm walking into the store, the app is telling me I'm almost done. OK, so there's a "concession," if you keep the car idle and not charging, Tesla charges you by the minute.

If there are any concessions, I'm pretty sure the trade-offs are worth it in every way, including never having to stop at gas stations, brakes that last the life of the car, no oil changes, far lower cost per mile for "fuel," no fumes and launching 0-60 with no particular driving skill in seconds. If that's a suboptimal ownership experience, we have very different perceptions of reality.

I'm not saying the tradeoffs aren't worth it for most people, or even all people when factoring cost savings in a vacuum.

But there are still major time concessions when charging versus fueling up for long trips, and range uncertainty in cold weather and towing, which, I get, are not factors for you personally, but they are for many others. And wariness over those tradeoffs doesn't make those folks stupid or inferior to you or whatever you're implying.

Your "major" time considerations amount to an extra 15 minutes two or three times a year at best, if I'm in the car three hours-plus one-way. And that's assuming I'm not going to be stopping that long anyway, which I am. If I can't roll with an extra 15 minutes now and then to enjoy the aforementioned benefits, I'm going to be reconsidering my life choices.

And come on, towing and weather affects gas cars too. Everyone had a beater at one time that wouldn't start in the cold. Electric motors don't have that problem. From the DOE:

Cold weather and winter driving conditions can significantly reduce fuel economy. Fuel economy tests show that, in city driving, a conventional gasoline car's gas mileage is roughly 15% lower at 20°F than it would be at 77°F. It can drop as much as 24% for short (3- to 4-mile) trips.

djDaemon:

And wariness over those tradeoffs doesn't make those folks stupid or inferior to you or whatever you're implying.

I didn't imply it, I called it out. If one refuses to consider observable facts, that's willful ignorance, not wariness. I don't think the definition of willful ignorance is negotiable.

It's also an observable fact that it takes between 20 and 40-ish minutes to charge most EVs from 5% to 80%, whereas refilling a gas-fueled vehicle to 100% takes, what, 5 minutes at most? I get that for you and your lifestyle that's no big deal, but for others, it's a consideration, not a sign of stupidity. Not everyone wants to be forced to spend a half hour refueling every few hundred miles, regardless of whether or not you personally find it inconvenient.

Also, speaking from within the auto industry, there's a fair amount of "wait and see" happening with regard to the various battery technologies, charging infrastructure, reparability issues, and so on that has a lot of people waiting until things settle down a bit. It's pretty wild to assume those folks are stupid for not adopting a new technology just because you personally have chosen to.

djDaemon:

there's a fair amount of "wait and see" happening with regard to the various battery technologies, charging infrastructure, reparability issues, and so on that has a lot of people waiting until things settle down a bit

I feel like we are a long way from settling down since this is just the beginning of all of this. Technology will always be improving so waiting for something better at some point will never end. Although, I guess there was probably at least one guy who never bought a car and still rode his horse into town. But I bet his kids bought a car!

I still don't get how charging for an extra 15-20 minutes on a 500+ mile road trip is a con. You must be the kind of guy who stops at a Buc-ees on your family vacation, but wont' let the kids go inside to check it out because "we're making great time, use the empty Gatorade bottles in the back seat to relieve yourselves!" The rest of us are inside eating brisket, jerky, and arm wrestling a dude in a beaver costume.

Oh, and by the way. Outside of road trips, you never have to go to a gas station again. That means put a 100+ mile radius around your house. You'll never visit a gas station inside that radius again if you don't want to. It is quite fun pumping gas standing out in the cold, but I can simulate that experience if I really get hard up for old timey nostalgic feelings.

I had the pleasure of stopping for the first time this past summer at a Buc-ee's, somewhere in middle of nowhere KY. I observed that they very slyly placed the restrooms at the back of the place, forcing folks to have to make the extra long walk past all that merchandise they really don't need and food serving areas as well. One also had to make that trek to get a coffee as the self-serve refreshments were conveniently located back there as well. The place was a mad-house.

CP recently mimicked that restroom placement concept at Winter Chill-Out. One had to walk clear back to Frontier Town First Aid when they gotta-go.

djDaemon:
Not everyone wants to be forced to spend a half hour refueling every few hundred miles...

Well that's great then, because they don't have to, even if they have an EV!

Let's say the car that Disney just wrecked, at 61,000 miles, ran on gas, and had a decent 30 mpg efficiency, and a 14-gallon tank, and we emptied it every single time, at 420 miles. That's 145 gas station visits, and even at 5 minutes a stop, that's 12 hours I didn't have in the EV. And it's likely more, because people don't drive their cars until they're empty.

Which, believe it or not, you wouldn't do in an EV either. Not only do you not have to charge from 5 to 80%, but you only really need to charge enough to get to your next stopping point. If I'm stopping at that Sarasota charger, I'm not charging to some high level, I'm charging until I have the capacity to get home, where the electrons are cheaper. Looks like my last supercharger stop was in April (but infrastructure right?), and I pulled down 15 kWh in Arcadia, FL. I doubt that I was there 10 minutes.

And "wait and see?" Watch the Norway video, there's no waiting there. The Model Y was the fifth best selling car or truck last year in the US, selling almost 400k units in the US alone. The 3 and Y together sold about 620k units. If that's waiting and seeing, then it's no wonder that Kia, Hyundai and even VW are in a good position to beat GM and Ford this year in EV unit sales. Various analysts are expecting another 20+% growth this year. So maybe you're skeptical, but I wouldn't characterize the industry as skeptical at all. It's happening, whether you think it is or not.

My un-scientific mind can sort of understand the VW, Hyundai, Kia outselling Ford & GM in EV sales, at least in my area. Where I reside in the rural FL panhandle it seems 80% of the vehicles on the road ( I use the term road loosely) are pick-up trucks with various bumper stickers & flags adorning them. I assume this cross section of folks are prone to not want to conform to the "push" by whatever entity to change their ways. They aren't going to buy the VW, Kia, Hyundai and are more likely to have the monster truck wheels on their GM, Ford, Ram. I did see a row of chargers never being used behind Dickeys BBQ near I-10.

99er:

Technology will always be improving so waiting for something better at some point will never end.

Technology does not develop linearly. As a technology-driven product like EVs matures technologically, initial issues, faults, drawbacks, inefficiencies, etc., are eliminated and the product improves. Which is something Jeff alluded to earlier with his reference it IC vehicles previously having trouble starting in cold weather.

As an example, EV makers are still using Li-ion batteries, while it looks like solid state batteries are the future, as they have higher energy density, less range loss, faster charging times, and are far safer in that they won't aggressively barbecue the vehicle's occupants in the event of a violent car crash. So, a vast improvement in many ways from and end user perspective. If solid state batteries can be produced at scale, Li-ion batteries will be antiquated in a few/several years.

Jeff:
you only really need to charge enough to get to your next stopping point.

I don't get why you keep mentioning this as a benefit to EVs, considering that the same is true of a gas vehicle, since I could, I guess, add only a quarter tank or whatever if I wanted to "save time" at the pump, even though all I'm really doing is making sure I have to stop to refuel sooner than if I had just filled it up completely, or in the case of an EV, filled it to ~80%, a decent tradeoff given the variable rate they charge at.

As for the success of EVs in Norway, good for them (seriously!), but that adoption is not happening in a free market vacuum, as I'm sure you know. They have heavily incentivized EV adoption while heavily disincentivizing non-EVs in the Country's stated effort to eliminate IC vehicles by 2025. So it stands to reason that, absent those economic incentives, their EV adoption wouldn't be the same.

Like I've said, I'm as big a fan of EVs as anyone. They are, or will be, easier to produce, run clean, are cheaper to maintain, and will eventually provide effectively free transportation once we start utilizing nuclear more broadly. So, again, big fan.

But I also recognize that there are plenty of valid reasons to hold off on adoption for some people. You mentioned earlier that EV use has been "politicized", which I think is not accurate. EV use, like politics, has been tribalized (though along the same social fault lines as politics, understandably). And I fail to see how a member of one tribe stating unequivocally that all members of another tribe are willfully ignorant and stupid isn't part of the problem.