News: The hard part: Making it stick

So who else listens to Ratt's "round and round" when they pull up this thread?

:)

Obviously, there are laws against drunk driving, because a drunk driver can harm others. Just like second hand smoke can harm others. If a customer sits in a bar and gets filthy drunk, his alcohol intake does not make people around him drunk.

It is not even the act of a person inhaling cigarette smoke that is the issue here. It is lighting the cigarette and letting it burn to produce smoke that is the problem. Maybe that is a silly distinction, but I think it is important because this law is all about a person's actions affecting other people, not what they do to themselves.

Look at the noise ordinances many communities have. Not much different. I can cut grass or play my music system as loud as I want 24/7, as long as I'm in a bubble so my noise doesn't interfere with people trying to sleep, etc. Since I'm not in a bubble, I can't do what I want with my own music system because my actions bother other people.

Let's pretend to take away all smoking restrictions, pretty much like it was in the 60's. Every work place had at least one smoker. Then where do I go to work? We as a society have evolved from our ignorance during that time period to recognize the danger and harm smokers cause to non-smokers. This is all about bringing more civility to our society. I can't shoot someone, I can't punch someone and I can't run someone down with my car. Now a smoker can't kill someone with toxic smoke. Do your dangerous activity as much as you want, just not someplace where you can put a non-participant in harm's way. It's really not more complicated than that, and I don't see it as a personal freedom issue. The key work being "personal".

Jeff said:...smoking is an example of a social activity that, while obviously harmful, is also culturally accepted to a certain degree.

Obviously its not as socially accepted as it once was or this law wouldn't have passed.

The fact that dj said he thinks CP should be allowed to charge for bathrooms just shows he doesn't understand what a cultured society is. There are just certain things developed nations provide for public health. Bathrooms is one of them. Now, clean indoor air is another. For the same reasons urinating in public is prohibited, so is smoking.

Wow - good point. It's obvious you understood my post.

halltd said:
Obviously its not as socially accepted as it once was or this law wouldn't have passed.

...In the state where the same voters outlawed gay marriage. Who was that hurting, exactly? Was second-hand gayness a problem?

The funny thing about "wisdom of crowds" is that crowds are often irrational and make stupid decisions. But hey, I guess I can move to another state, right?

Wait... Are you trying to tell us something? ;)

Come on day to Florida Jeff. The indoor air is clean and your vote likely won't count anyway.

The funny thing about "wisdom of crowds" is that crowds are often irrational and make stupid decisions. But hey, I guess I can move to another state, right?

You're right, and I agree with you that the current "crowd" view of gay marriage in Ohio is irrational.

However, on this vote i am very proud of the crowd. If the crowd was "stupid", they would have fallen for the trickery of the tobacco companies, and voted issue 4 on as well. But we didn't. I did my part to help educate voters, and it worked.

Jeff, feel free to come here to Philly. A few months back they passed a smoking ban just like yours in Ohio, so you know that the city is totally safe and healthy.

Except for the fact that murders and other violent crimes are still skyrocketing. But who cares about that, right?

VISIT PA!!! :-)

Living in a state that is home to at least two cities in the top five most dangerous cities in the U.S., smoking should be the least of Michigan's worries...but we'll see...

I wanted to bring up my college campus, Northwestern Michigan College....there are designated smoking areas for students who choose to smoke...unfortunately, these areas are located right outside most entrances into the campus buildings...so to get to my classes, I get to walk through a wall of secondhand smoke everytime, everyday. But I can choose not to go to school, or be late to class because I decided to wait until the smokers were done....right?

The same with businesses...a non smoking restaurant may allow smoking outside...and there are many of us who still, have to go through that wall of smoke just to get inside...but thats not going to stop me from eating..

Point: you can choose to avoid smoking establishments, but you'll still end up inhaling second hand smoke, somewhere, somehow. Which many people probably won't admit to...one ban is not enough for those of you who are in such great support of it, and one ban is too much for those of you who are against it.

Here's another perspective on the smoking/non-smoking issue. This article is talking about the city where I "live" now.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-psmoking15nov15,0,3415180.story?coll=sfla-news-palm

edit: posted the link for "copyright" reasons...
*** Edited 11/15/2006 8:41:48 PM UTC by halltd***

You would think a better solution would be to make littering a crime. Oh, wait...

Halltd...where do you live?

Technically my condo is in Delray Beach. But, I'm "living" in Providenciales in the Caribbean right now for work.

I missed that article. I'm in Weston.

We have City Ordinances that restrict smoking in our City parks:

(A) It is unlawful for any person to smoke any tobacco product:

(1) Within any city government building;

(2) Outdoors on city property at all entrances and exits to any city government building;

(3) Within the following park and recreational areas: playing fields, courts, rinks, around team seating areas or dugouts, bleacher or spectator areas, playgrounds concession stands and restrooms.

I'm all for restricting smoking on the beach just due to the littering issue alone.

I wish cp would have designated smoking areas like pki and disney.

I just spent a week at disneyland, and it was great not walking thrue clouds of smoke.