News: Kinzel signs pact to stay to 2012

I would seriously hope they put guests on a separate network from park operations. That's just asking for trouble if they have average users roaming on their business network. So, if they are smart, the $5 is justified.

Would I rather it be free? Of course. But, I would also use it if it were $5. Plus, if they're looking for revenue, that's a great place to get it.

Tim, they could just as easily encrypt their business routers with a different encryption than the routers they give public access to.

I would think they charge enough for the rooms on point that wireless internet would be included.

Loopy said:
Tim, they could just as easily encrypt their business routers with a different encryption than the routers they give public access to.

I would think they charge enough for the rooms on point that wireless internet would be included.

With the price of a room, I would hope they would include wireless access.

As for the encryption...it had better be darn good. Once while I was in Donut Time I watched a kid attempt to get into the CP systems on one of those computers. The kid was really ticking me off with what he was doing. he changed so many settings, that you had to restart the computer in a way that I normally don't like to restart PCs. If they install wireless that is used for both the business and guest end, they had better get some really good encryption and firewalls in place.

Great points Loopy. It's like what i say to do with the parking fee. Wrap it up in the gate admission. Why let them know what they're paying for. Ignorance is bliss, especially for the consumer.

The real thing is that there isn't any fool proof encryption or firewall or whatever. If you're afraid of some hacker then you shouldn't even try to do a wireless network. There are people out there who will get in if they want to get in. Period.

On the other hand i'm sure that there are plenty of options that can keep the average troublesome brat out of the network. It's all about the perception of value for the customer. Wrap the cost in another revenue generating area and offer the service for "free".

I've been complaining about this for years.

Let me start by saying for me Cedar Point is a destination resort. I travel from Florida every year to spend a few days at the Point. I am not a "day guest".

Your room key should act as your key to the point, much like Disney. If I could charge back to the room all I would need to carry is my room key, and I could leave my wallet back in the room, safe and sound. Your room key should also be able to be used as a ticket to get in and out of the park, once again, much like Disney. If you go say in May, and get the package plan, you get one full day in the park, and one Starlight ticket. The water park is not open yet, so you end up sitting around one half day with nothing to do. They do throw in some tickets for go-carts and mini golf, but that only takes an hour or so. For me Internet in the room is no big deal, part of the charm of Cedar Point for me is the fact that I'm "disconnected" from the world for a few days.

This is all part of Cedar Point transitioning from a "day resort" to a "destination resort". I'm sure changes will be made in the future, but they (CP resorts) do seem to be a little behind the times in this area.

The park has little or nothing to do with the network at Donut Time. It's a promotional thing with AT&T or something. It's there because it didn't cost the park anything.

If they do offer Internet access in the resorts, wired or wireless, I sure hope they don't leave out Lighthouse Point.

I think Mike outlines the whole technology consolidation pretty well, especially the point of having one card. I just went through my Disney and Universal bills and found that my average total charges each day totaled about $140. I've never spent that much at Cedar Point in the park on any day, because I can see those twenties keep disappearing from my wallet. That inhibition doesn't exist at Disney and Universal.

To be fair, they do have internet access in all of the resort lobbies. That seems to be a seperate network from Donut Time, at least going by the EULA screen when you log in.

That's nice, and it helps, but they do need access in each guest room.

As Jeff and Mike said, CP is missing out on some guest spending by being technology backward.

I know that many people from Mr. Kinzels generation fail to fully grasp how computer technology has changed the playing field in many ways. That is painfully apparent to me, being in the IT industry myself, and dealing with many different age groups.

It comes down to the fact that CP's resistance to technology affects the bottom line, both through lower guest spending and lower guest satisfaction.

The first time I checked into LHP on the package plan, and the front desk clerk handed me my coupon book with park tickets inside I almost busted out laughing. "Your kidding right? Your still using coupon books?" I then asked why I recieved discount water park tickets with the package when the water park wasn't even open yet. The poor girl at the desk was clueless. "Well you can come back when the park opens and use the ticket" I dont think I'm gonna fly in from Orlando to visit Soak City! It's almost as if CP management is unaware they they could turn the resort into a true destination resort with a little improvements here and there. A nightime entertainment district would help also! How many nights can you hang out in TGIFridays or the Bay Harbor? When I got home I wrote a nice letter to CP resorts asking why they didn't have some sort of legnth of stay pass that was encoded on to your room key. I never got a response. Oh well, hopefully soon. This year I opted for the annul pass, so I wont be dealing with the package plan.

gener said:
I don't see how a thumb print is any more personal than say your bank account, or your salary, or how much you paid for your house.

You don't see how a part of your body is more personal?? You can always close an account, or change jobs, you can't change your fingerprints. Big brother fears or not, I'm not going to that system w/o a fight. I'm not that trusting.

As for The Breakers, it def. has room for improvement. I love that old hotel & we stay for 2 reasons: nostalgia & it's on the beach. But they lose money from me each season because I only book when I get a sale price. If the hotel ran more like a true resort, I wouldn't have a problem spending more money on my room rate. Also, the food is below par t/o the hotel, so we started bringing more food up to store in the room frig. Again, I would eat there more if the food was better. And what on earth is wrong with wanting to be pampered on your vacation??

Oh yea, and Maxair & Skyhawk are thrill rides, not family rides.

Sure do see alot of little ones on Skyhawk and MaXair. Hmmm must not be a family ride.

Again, what can someone do with your print information that gives them an advantage over you? The arguement now is essentially like saying, "i don't want anyone to see my underwear because it's too personal and i don't want you to see it." Being afraid to give someone your fingerprint is like being afraid to tell someone your eye color or shoe size; it's all physical characteristics that have no intrinsic value to anyone else and is also easily ascertained by anyone close enough to you.

I for one am far more leary in giving someone my social security number or email password. That information has a far greater potential for compromising aspects of my life than if some crazy has my eye glasses percription. Anyone who does business on the internet is required to pass over far more personal information that has far greater value. So Good grief..., i hope you hold the same hesitation in doing any business that requires that use of that information.

And if someone does "steal" your print most people have nine other readily available digits. Furthermore all of the pay by touch setups that i've seen also require a pin of some sort.

The print is no different from any other personal information that we are required to manage on a daily basis. What we all have to realize is that all of our information is readily available to all kinds of people everyday and that's just the way it is. It's each persons responsibility to manage it themselves, but to say that a finger print is somehow different is pretty absurd.

The print could be applied as a security measure to all personal information. Oh wah, they require a pin. It's not that hard to lift a print, somewhat to a lesser extent to make a finger-like material containing the print. There ya go, use that instead. If someone is going through the trouble to get your print, they could most likely easily spy your pin off of you.

But that's just my rant, I don't truly have any background info. Correct me if I'm wrong, please...

gener said:
Being afraid to give someone your fingerprint is like being afraid to tell someone your eye color or shoe size

Did you miss fourth grade biology? Are you the only person on the planet with blue eyes or size 10 shoes?

I for one am far more leary in giving someone my social security number or email password.

You're more concerned about your e-mail password than the potential abuses of a fingerprint (or DNA) database? Huh? Like I said a page earlier, if you can't see the difference between something that is genetically coded to you, and a number on a piece of paper, then there's no point in even having a debate.

David, I checked myself by looking at the CP website. Max & Skyhawk are thrill rides. Even though you may see some little daredevils just as I do riding TTD, it doesn't make it a family ride. Family is mom, dad, other kids & maybe even grandma/pa. Our whole crew rides DT, ID, Wildcat, Skyride, etc. (And WWL... had to throw a whine in there about that ;) ) I'm sure there are some families that it fits all around, but it is not generally suited to be marketed as a family ride.

Gener, I feel that an identifying piece of my body has greater value than account info. And this is coming from someone who had my wallet stolen last year. The guy wrote 15 bad checks on my acccount; it was a nightmare to clean up. But if someone had stolen my fingerprint, or had found a way to make it appear it was mine, how would I fight that? And yes, I'm pretty careful with my personal info on the net. This site is the first I've ever given my pic or first name. I thought maybe I could lighten up a little as long as my last name or address wasn't out there. Oh, & it's also true that I don't want you to see my underwear :)

4lyf, the earlier reference to the myth busters was about a show they did where they beat a fingerprint security system. In essence they had to create a synthetic print to place over their thumb so that the machine could read a heart beat in the thumb. But they did beat it. But my point was exactly what you said. It's beatable and so is every other security measure we have.

Now Walt don't give me that condesending crap. What abuses can someone do with your fingerprint? And i in no way mentioned DNA. In fact i stayed away from that purposefully. But on the otherhand your print is not DNA, so i ask again, what advantage does your print information give someone else over you? And if you can't articulate your fears to my simple peabrain then I guess you just don't have any legitimate issues other than it makes you feel violated. Or is it just some big brother issue? What are the abuses that someone can do with my fingerprint?

Good grief seemed to allude to the first real reason i've seen, which would be some sort of identity fraud or framing. If that was the point than i would say that there are plenty of ways to make someone look like they did something. But it is a valid point i guess. Even if there are plenty of ways that one's identity could be lifted or framing that could happen using other technology (like Photoshop).

It wasn't my intent to be condescending, but to say that a fingerprint and shoe size are on the same level leaves you open to some serious criticism.

By its very nature, a fingerprint is individuating. Over time, databases grow. A business is sold, privacy policies change. Now your personal information, tied to your fingerprint, belongs to a business using the information for reasons you did not intend.

These are the same privacy issues we deal with on a daily basis, expect now the identifier is uniquely individual and genetic. You use your fingerprint to buy groceries, pick up your prescriptions, use the ATM, go to the amusement park, login to your ISP, and enter the door at work. What happens to that data if it gets sold? Who's to say the police wouldn't take shopping, banking, medical, and travel records and cross-reference them with their own fingerprint database?

Your credit card number, your social security number, your PIN, your grocery savings card number, your drug insurance card number, they're all just that, numbers. They are not genetically tied to anything. And look at all the privacy concerns we face in this day and age. Moving to something that is individuating makes it much easier for your privacy to be violated, with the potential results even more damaging.

The closest thing we have today is a social security number, though it is not nearly as individual and personal as a fingerprint. The social security number was meant merely to be an account number for the Social Security Administration (which in itself is a problem), but it's turned into what? Most (some) people protect that number with their life. You wouldn't use your social security number to buy groceries, enter your workplace, or enter the gate at Cedar Point. Why? There are many potential problems in doing so.

One is identity theft. That is criminal, and a criminal element will exist in any system. At first glance, and without much thought, one may think that fingerprints solve the identity theft issue. But with that conclusion, you leave out the fact that criminals will always find a way to steal from you. History has shown they will outsmart and bypass any new system. If someone can get your social security number out of a database, why can't they get your fingerprint data out of a database? Move that information to another database? Who knows what could happen. Thankfully, I don't have a criminal mind or I could probably come up with better examples. :)

"Well, there will be built in protections."

Really? Who builds them? The business? The banks? The government? The same people who are "protecting" our privacy right now? Ha! And now that we're moving ahead with technology, are our weak privacy standards moving ahead to keep pace? Of course not. The same failed privacy system, which is already behind the times, is being applied to a new era of identification systems.

The other concern with a social security number is cross-referencing. It kind of plays along the lines of a national ID (I'll fight the urge to rant on the Real ID Act). If you used your social security number for everything, it would be much easier to track what you do, what you buy, where you visit. But that's exactly the freedom that you give up if you use your fingerprint everywhere. I just don't have any trust that businesses with that information will protect me.

So, if we're putting so much effort into protecting our social security numbers, why are we so quick to give up even more freedom and protection with fingerprints? There have been a number of recent news reports about laptops with customer data being stolen or reported missing. What happens when those laptops include fingerprint data? I understand that fingerprint data is not a number, and the data does vary each time you press your thumb to the reader. The systems require matching technology. That is a common biometric industry argument - a fingerprint is safer than a social security number. They actually make it sound like matching a fingerprint is difficult to do and that it's not an exact science (doesn't exactly instill confidence, does it?), which, in turn, makes cross-referencing impossible. But where does that matching technology come from? Who has access to it? Is it the vendor? The biometric company? If they can use the algorithm to grant access or approve a transaction, who's to say it can't be used to cross-reference? They promise you it won't be? You have their word on it? It's hard enough now to protect my privacy. I have no desire to make it harder.

If you thought I was just some government-fearing, conspiracy theorist, typing responses while wearing my tinfoil hat, I hope I've clarified where my concerns come from. If you still think I'm wrong, we should probably just agree to disagree.

Wow. I typed a lot. This is why I need to get my blog started. I resisted a blog for, oddly enough, privacy reasons, but I need a place to rant.

I also need a nap. :)

*** Edited 1/1/2007 2:54:48 PM UTC by Walt***

Say Walt, does that mean you're against any individualized physiological typing? The same arguments that could be made against fingerprinting also apply to iris scans, voice identifications, and the like.

I just like the fact that because I got my MaxxPass from a previous Paramount park, it won't even have my picture on it.

When the "gate keeper" scans my pass a picture will show up on their screen of me, and they're "supposed" to match the picture to the face on the screen.

We all know how well they pay attention to the pictures on the passes now, I seriously doubt they'll take the time to look at the screen to match the picture.

Same situation with the parking passes will occur with the season passes, instead of enforcing the regulations on the employees, they'll make it more difficult for the patrons. I'm sure by the 2008 season CF will have removed all technology from the old Paramount parks and moved backwards as usual. I'm willing to bet that the Paramount locations will have pictures on their passes in 2008.

Sad.

Yes, it is unfortunate that some employees won't take the time to actually verify the pictures on the pass. Those employees usually don't last long, or at least get moved away from the season pass gate to a position that's harder to screw up. However, it's unfair to entirely blame the employees. If there weren't people out there trying to cheat the system, there would be no need to add additional complications to the pass system. If you don't think there's a problem with people trying to cheat the system, you should spend just one day working the season pass entrance.

I absolutely KNOW there's a problem with people trying to cheat the pass system.

What I'm saying is that instead of CF holding the employees to a higher standard and implementing new technology, they revert back to old ways that makes it easier for the employee and more of an inconvenience for the customer.

No matter what you're dealing with in life, there will be people trying to cheat the system. In most instances the system doesn't get changed to something more inconvenient for the consumer to solve the problem.