News: Cedar Fair brass gets more gold

http://www.pointbuzz.com/news.htm?id=860

Unbelievable! Corperate America should be ashamed of itself.

MrScott

I've read before that in the Japanese corporate culture, when there is a bad year financially, it's the executives that take the paycuts instead of the employees. I just find that really interesting.

Not to say that CF had a dismal year, but they seem to be cutting back on things around their flagship park.

The question is what makes more financial sense? Cutting the executive's salary and benefits? Or cutting employees and their benefits? To me the later makes better financial sense, but then look at what the expense is. Fewer employees can mean fewer services.

This is why I would probably suck as a business owner and go bankrupt a month after starting.

~Rob Willi

Cutting employees will have an immediate effect on the bottom-line and may make things look good in the short term. However, the long-term effects can be pretty close to irreversible, especially after a couple years of cut-backs.

Bad reputations are much harder to turn around than good ones.

However, maybe instead of paying their executives with raises the size of my annual salary, they could up the base seasonal pay by 1.50. It may not be much, but combine that with the 1.00/hr bonus and you're looking at about 8.50/hr to work at a great place with an experience you won't get working for 10.50/hr doing landscaping.

The compensation that CF's top executives get is not out of line at all with other people in their positions. Dick Kinzel has a nice income, but he also has a lot of responsibility for the success of the company. He gets compensated to carry that burden.

Cedar Fair had a strong bottom line and a successful year last year. Most numbers were up, including attendance. It's not surprising that people received bonuses and raises.

*** Edited 4/12/2006 1:28:17 PM UTC by Pete***

Cut the big boy's salary's and give it to the seasonals? Out of the question.

But, just think what it would do for park operations to take, say, like 20% from the top 5 and funnel it into park ops. I dunno where, seasonals, housing, etc.

I just have a hard time believing paying these mouths of the company millions of dollars a year, when the real work is being done by people (and yes, they are people) 6 bucks an hour. I don't get it.

Boy, it had to really be hard for the uppers to agree to drop the attendance price when then get those wages.

MrScott
*** Edited 4/12/2006 2:13:28 PM UTC by MrScott***

I've always felt public companies' executives should get a dismal salary, with most of their income coming from shares and other actual park-performance gains, rather than subjective review-based raises and bonuses.

I mean, who's going to tell Dick he's not doing a good job and thus doesn't deserve a bonus? I'm not saying he did a bad job, just making an example.

Pete said:
Dick Kinzel has a nice income, but he also has a lot of responsibility for the success of the company. He gets compensated to carry that burden.

And that's what some people don't understand about corporate America. Sure the workers are the ones that do the gruntwork, but who is responsible for putting that work in front of them?

I don't think the executive's salary is way off base. From what I understand if they are making more than 20 times their lowest paid employee, then that's where it starts to get out of line.

Like I said, I didn't think Cedar Fair had a dismal year for 2005 at all, yet they are cutting things as if they did. The stock holders are happy with the company and for the most part the parks are still bringing in people, they get the raises, but cut out other things around the park?

Just doesn't make sense to me I guess.

~Rob Willi

MrScott said:
when the real work is being done by people (and yes, they are people) 6 bucks an hour.

I don't really want to fall into a discussion of Big Business versus the Working Man or whether so-and-so is overpaid or underpaid, etc. Just be careful not to discount the leadership that a Dick Kinzel brings to the table. You seem to be implying that those at the top really aren't doing anything. In fact, it's been argued by some here recently that the departure of those in higher positions has been a big problem.

I think you're confusing your disdain of business leaders in general with this specific case. It's a seasonal job. The vast majority of Cedar Point's seasonal workers are not there to feed a family of four. No offense to any seasonal worker (I was one for six years), but the guy at the hot dog stand doesn't make the business decision to build Magnum, or a new resort hotel, etc. Don't oversimplify "real work."

Sorry, but I don't know ANYONE that is entitled to millions of dollars in compensation. CF/CP included.

Kinzel may have been great leadership. But is ANYONE worth that amount of money?

And I'm a Republican.

It's not rocket science to figure out what will bring people to any one destination. Just give them what they want.

Now that I've pointed this out, where's my 3+ million dollars?

Executives (CF included) are overpaid and the people who do the acutal implemention and the work that comes "with making it go" are underpaid.

But we keep spending 40 bucks a day to visit. The uppers must be laughing their butt's off.

Sorry, seeing those wages just set me off, knowing what the average to middle average guy makes at CP. It's even worse where I work.

Corperate America should be ashamed.

MrScott

I had no idea running an amusement park chain was so easy!

This isn't a case specific to Cedar Point. Just look at downtown Detroit and that tower with a giant G and M attached to it. They've cut a bunch of white collar jobs (easier than messing Unbelievably Atrocious Waste) and yet the top guys didn't get a cut (I don't think, if they did, it wasn't very publicized).

CP's seasonals haven't had a raise since what, 97, 98? Now, I don't think any of them are supporting, or trying to support a family on those wages, and if they are, then they are stupid and should get a real job, but that doesn't mean slightly higher pay wouldn't help draw more and better people.
When you use the summer to save up money for the school year and your options are: 1- live at home (rent free) and work for 10 dollars an hour doing whatever or 2- working at the Point (not rent free in what I've heard are not the best living accommodations) for only 6 bucks an hour; its not surprising that some who may be great workers decide to seek employment elsewhere because of that lack of pay. Having a job that will look good on a resume will only draw so many people.

I'm not meaning to say the exec's jobs are easy (I'm sure Dick has his share of 80+ work weeks in the summer), nor that they shouldn't be justly compensated. But it would also be nice to see some money re-invested in the seasonals. Something that would certainly start to help reverse this trend that there are problems with morale in ops.

*** Edited 4/12/2006 4:13:01 PM UTC by JuggaLotus***

I'm not saying seasonals should or should not get paid more. Or that the executives are over or underpaid. I just thought that MrScott was very quick to discount what experienced leaders bring to this company.

The CF top brass salaries and bonuses are right on the money if, if anything a little low for high ranking officer pay in a large successful operation like CF. Heck, former CEO Burke of Six Flags got $2 million plus in bonus alone last year for running his company into the ground!

I think the ones who are getting the rawest deal in the operation are the low-level managers. When you figure out their salary compared to the hours they put in each year, especially the unlivable 6-day 70 hour work weeks April-August, they aren’t making much more than the seasonals per hour.

As for the seasonal rate, $7.25 (adding the $1 bonus) in 1999 I would was consider amazing pay for a college summer job. Local retail and Fast food were paying $5.50 something around that time (that’s what I started at ;). It’s 2006 though and that rate is the same, and I know the same place I started at in 1999 is hiring in closer to $7. Suddenly that CP Seasonal wage looks very unattractive especially when you figure in cost of living out there.

I really think they are sticking to that rate because they are still getting people to fill the positions, especially the international crowed who still considers those rates favorable. However I still don’t think they are drawing the best quality workforce overall as compared to earlier years (see freeway thread for rant).

As a previous employee of CP and now IBM, trust me, I UNDERSTAND... I work for one of the most powerful companies in the world, and pay raises in general don't even go up with the cost of living!!!

BUT we should also remember that CEOs didn't just enter the workforce at the top... Kinzel started at the VERY bottom, worked his way up, was a good worker, got an education, and deserves his position as much as anyone. I know from experience it it tough being the guy making $6.25 an hour and working 80 hours a week living in sub-standard housing... but at least the CEO has been there too.

For a public company, a lot of these guys are underpaid by comparison. Executives, especially at this company, work 50 and 60 hour weeks and are responsible for a $1.5 billion company with more than 53 million units out there. I'm sorry, but how many people on the planet are qualified to manage something like that?

If I were to criticize any part of the salary structure at Cedar Fair, I too would probably do so in the middle management category. But even then, that's where I attribute a lot of the problems the company has, so I don't think the people in that segment deserve a higher salary anyway.

And I don't get this American entitlement nonsense. "I work, therefore I deserve more regardless of what skills I actually bring to the table." You want to make more money? Learn to do something that pays more. Been there and done that (and subsequently found out that in itself didn't make me any happier to speak of).

I may have sounded like I was being CP/CF specific, which was not my intent. That's why I said "Corperate America". This is not a CF thing, it's everywhere. It's just sad to see it at CF, too.

MrScott

What's sad about rewarding executives managing a $1.5 billion company for performance? You don't make any sense.

Nothing. It's the amount of the reward that is disturbing. (And not just at CF!)

I work for a company 20 times the size of CF and have heard all of the cost cutting lines possible. And then to hear what the uppers are getting paid is disgusting. Most people won't spend a million dollars in their lifetimes and these guys are getting paid more than that a year.

MrScott

It's a matter of moderation really... the global corporation that I work for just took away employee pensions, have outsourced thousands of american jobs to 3rd world countries, yet the upper leadership is still getting increasing raises every year. This year none of my coworker's raises even increased enough to make up for the yearly increase in their RENT!

I may be the moderate between Jeff and Mr. Scott. I'm not saying upper management shouldn't be paid well... but it's just disheartening and bad for company morale when employees feel neglected to begin with, and then they see leadership getting increases on their already multi-million dollar salaries.