New Iron Dragon Height Requirement

I'll choose CP over Disney any day. Disney is a been there done that type of place and the rides aren't very good. I could never go there again and it wouldn't bother me. And Disney is quite a ripoff. CP is the best value and provides good rides.

Most kids? It's not the kids that choose, it's the parents, and CP is a factor of 10 difference between costs from Disney, so for 99% of the people, it doesn't even enter into the equation.

I agree, this is a bump, people will be pissed, people will be able to do nothing about it, they will get over it.

That said, it's still a boneheaded move.

While we all appreciate Tony chiming in, I would hope that he also might share some of these thoughts with the folks at the park. Will it, would it, or could it make a difference? Who knows. It's worth sharing, though.

Incidentally, my daughter is writing a letter asking them to change their mind. She said that maybe it will help if she says "please".

Of course, Kylah.

:)

Bob and Zoë think that Kylah rocks. Zoë will be writing a letter as well.

I feel bad for three groups of people here. (1)the "in-betweeners", the kids that were able to ride ID last year, but now can't. (2) the parents that have to now try to explain why they aren't able to this year, and (3) the kids that were looking forward to this being their first "major" coaster for the 2014 year and now have to wait 2 more inches/ or probably until 2015. I'm glad my kids were able to experience Wildcat,ID, and Disaster Transport when they first turned tall enough to do so. This is a silly change after 26 years and I feel the little ones needed these beginner coasters like DT and ID to get used to the bigger stuff. On the bright side, I guess those turning 48" tall for the 1st time will get to cram in Mine Ride, Gemini, ID, Corkscrew, and a whole host of others when the time arrives. I guess in the meantime, there's always Pipe Scream, Wildnerness Run, and Woodstock Express...

Rideman's comment about a new corporate director of safety trying to make his mark reminds me of how it's gone over the years with things like Blue Streak's trains and control system, dispatch gates galore, standing on red dots, hiding behind pillars, loose article policies, rain policies, etc. As Pete said, it was way different in the 70's. It was even way different ten years ago when I was working at the park. Capacity has taken a big hit (Magnum and Raptor are doing about 20% less now than they did in 2004 and it's not because no one wants to ride them - my waits have been longer in recent years). Now this change even takes away a ride from a certain group of people.

I was looking forward to riding ID with my kid (probably not this summer, but next). Now he will be 7 or 8 years old before he can ride ID at which point, we'll maybe ride it once and move on to Magnum or Millennium Force.

Because it will no longer fill that in between role that it has for so many years, I'll (conspiracy?) theorize that this marks about two or three years from the time we'll hear an announcement of Iron Dragon's removal. This is how CP seems to get rid of rides. They somehow neuter it (think White Water Landing with one chute instead of two, Space Spiral with one deck and no air conditioning, etc). Now they've cut Iron Dragon to two trains (last year) and raised the height requirement. Its ridership will drop and they will say that declining ridership and popularity is the reason for removal.

Busch Gardens got rid of the much loved Big Bad Wolf supposedly because of maintenance difficulties. Maybe CP is experiencing that with Iron Dragon. Something just tells me its days are numbered at this point. Hopefully something amazing will take its place eventually. :)

CPfan1976 said:
I feel bad for three groups of people here. (1)the "in-betweeners", the kids that were able to ride ID last year, but now can't. (2) the parents that have to now try to explain why they aren't able to this year, and (3) the kids that were looking forward to this being their first "major" coaster for the 2014 year and now have to wait 2 more inches/ or probably until 2015. I'm glad my kids were able to experience Wildcat,ID, and Disaster Transport when they first turned tall enough to do so. This is a silly change after 26 years and I feel the little ones needed these beginner coasters like DT and ID to get used to the bigger stuff. On the bright side, I guess those turning 48" tall for the 1st time will get to cram in Mine Ride, Gemini, ID, Corkscrew, and a whole host of others when the time arrives. I guess in the meantime, there's always Pipe Scream, Wildnerness Run, and Woodstock Express...

One group that I feel bad for is those of short stature who are 46 / 47 in tall. For 26 years, they could ride Iron Dragon, then all of a sudden, they can't. It was mentioned before that most of the guests won't even notice the change, but this does affect families and those who are 46 / 47.9 inch family members who were looking forward to riding Iron Dragon this summer. I also agree that Iron Dragon is a MUCH calmer ride than Millennium Force, but yet they have the same height requirement. Wait what?

I'm just glad I don't work in Guest Services or Park Ops...

In fairness, the height requirement on Millennium Force was 54" when the ride opened.

Matt, it looks to me like Magnum has about the same interval as always (we shall see if that continues this year with the control updates...) although operations are a lot more complicated with the hidden co-dispatch panel, platform gates, and silly red dots.

Raptor, on the other hand...I haven't figured out what has gone wrong there. But I know last year the interval was making Kings Island look good at times.

In fairness, some changes are the result of regulatory requirements. Like the platform gates. Others are a response to other issues, like shutting down the second chute on White Water Landing after they had a collision at the bottom. I really can't fault the park for some of that stuff.

And in the absence of evidence, don't fixate on my idle speculation about administrative staff, either. Did you see what I said up there about kids getting taller? Remember that on a ride like Iron Dragon, that height requirement may well be a surrogate for age, as maturity may be as, if not more, important to rider safety on a ride like Iron Dragon than physical considerations.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Using height as a surrogate for age makes sense and if that is the case, many people would be happy if the rule was riders between 46" and 48" need to ride with a responsible person over 48".

^^Dave after riding with John the other week I can just see you looking at the rides yelling "JESUS" haha. Btw he showed me the Scrambler @ KI how it operated, very nifty deal.

Dave, yes, the dispatch interval on Magnum is still the same in that they can (i.e. the computer allows them to) send a train when the previous one approaches the top of the 2nd hill. But in reality, we used to hit that probably about 95 out of every 100 trains. Now, with people messing around with loose article bins, etc, they hit it maybe half of the time if they are lucky and those extra seconds compounded over the day add up.

With an 80 second interval, missing it by 10 seconds on average cuts your capacity by over 12 percent. Then factor in that they are sending three of four seats empty on each train because they have to stand on red dots and can't group riders and you end up with 1.6 million per year instead of 2 million.

@Pete & Dave; I'm not convinced that makes much sense at all, at least in this case. In fact, I know it doesn't.

The average child in the United States, both males and females, does not hit 46 inches until 6 - 7 years of age. This is not significantly different than it was when Iron Dragon was built. In fact, it's basically identical.

We don't start seeing significant changes from generation to generation until we move into much later childhood and into adolescence. But even this is not so true anymore. Americans seem to have "maxed out"...at least for now...in getting taller even as adults, with nutrition (or lack thereof) being the main culprit. There was a time when you could expect kids to be taller than their parents. Not anymore. Our kids are certainly getting bigger...but that's in width, not height.

Even so, I would argue the average 1st and 2nd grader are mature enough to ride Iron Dragon safely.

So...next possible explanation, please. :)

Does anybody see them changing the ride requirement back to 46" half way through the season after all of the complaints they may get? If the real and only reason is "consistency throughout the chain", then I could see something like that possibly happening, but if it's for other reasons (such as legal reasons), It more than likely won't.

If it's legal, it's legal, and while it is still disappointing, I would actually see the park's hands as being tied in that scenario.

The current reason being dealt out makes absolutely no sense, so it's either a lie, or someone really just made an idiotic move.

Ego can also prevent someone from reversing a change.

I'm just curious as to how words coming out of someone's mouth will change anything related to your situation.

Shades said:
And when she hits the magic 48" / 52" / 54" height marks let us know if she still wants to go to Disney to ride their rides or if she then prefers CP and it's slightly more thrilling offerings.

This is a total strawman argument. The fact is that our children don't stay small and young forever, and they certainly don't care to pal around with mom and dad as they get older either. The very point of this is that we, as parents, want the opportunity to have experiences with them, together, while we can.

I worked at a smaller theme park in New York, and we experienced a similar issue with several of our coasters. For example, the height for Boomerang (Vekoma) was typically 48" tall to ride. Last year, it was changed that you must be 48" tall to ride and you must be with "a responsible adult over 54 inches." I guess it was because small children were riding alone and "panicking" going up lift 1.

As for the backlash, I'm certainly glad Boomerang wasn't one of my rides that summer. The guests were relentless for being angry about their children (who were once able to ride alone) now needed a parent.

meanstreak92 said:
I guess it was because small children were riding alone and "panicking" going up lift 1.

I'm an adult and I panic going up lift 1. Of course I've also worked on them so maybe that's the problem. :)

Jeff said:

This is a total strawman argument. The fact is that our children don't stay small and young forever, and they certainly don't care to pal around with mom and dad as they get older either. The very point of this is that we, as parents, want the opportunity to have experiences with them, together, while we can.

This is exactly it! The reason I continue to spend $$ at Disney is because I can enjoy so many experiences that are fun and thrilling for both me and my daughter--- this is what I was looking forward to doing this sumer at Cedar Point with Iron Dragon. I have taken her to Cedar Point every year of her life--- riding the rides in Camp/Planet Snoopy are a lot of similar experiences (Balloon Ride, Camp Bus/Submarine Ride, etc.) and the experience itself is really no more than general carnival rides that can be experienced at the state fair or IX Indoor Amusement Park.

Hopefully we will begin to see more quality rides that can be enjoyed by all ages. I am hoping what we are seeing with Wonder Mountain's Guardian is something promising at certainly the right direction---- hopefully it will have a low height requirement.

This seems to be the direction the park/chain is moving to--- which is why the Iron Dragon change baffles me.

^ Agreed, because with my situation, given my littlest one was 46 last year and could ride ID, I was planning two full family trips to CP. Now, that has been adjusted to only one in the fall, when he does reach 48 (I hope). Why? Because he'll be heartbroken that he can't ride ID again. Show him all the Skateboard and Eagle rides you want, he'll be crushed. So as Jeff alluded, I could have had 2 family memory caches with CP for 2014, now I only get 1.

Oh well, I'm past it, and I won't let a bonehead move ruin our summer. We're hitting Wisconsin Dells in the spring instead.