mean streak unleashed?
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you all know how i feel about MS...I LOVE IT!!! woodies are SUPPOSED to be that rough. after only 5 years and about 1/4 the size, Viper at SFGAm is becoming just as rough as MS, and the rumor of the American Eagle being torn down runs rampant in the off-season. the Eagle is in SORE need of the extensive care that MS recieves. they FINALLY re-tracked parts of it last winter in between building RB and working on Iron Wolf. it is so rough and so in need of refurbishing that i am fearful of riding it, due to the feeling that the cars are gonna fly right off. it barely makes it up the lift hill intact. they need to shut it down for a full season and work on it. so my feelings are as follows...deal with it. They ALL end up that way. i think what bothers us about MS is that we REALLY don't want it to end up like the Eagle(which is also very big)or end up getting torn down. i know i don't. we are AFRAID to love it for fear of losing it later on down the line. i for one will enjoy it again and again, no matter how rough.
now, about those trims....TAKE 'EM off!!! let the coaster break itself in, for pete's sake!!! it's going on 10 years old and it probably hasn't even been broken in yet. Eagle as example again(sorry) there was a four or five year period where the Eagle ROCKED!!! it was around the 6 to 10 year old range. it was getting roughter, but still fast. they never used that trims, except on the helix sometimes, and even then only when they were racing it, which they did for at least the last half of the day. they even ran it backwards for the 10th anniversary. it was just this perfectly broken in wooden coaster. comfortable and not too rough, it was developing a good personality because they were letting it do so. they just let it do what it wanted /needed/was born to do. afer 5 more years of that, though, it now is in BAD shape. still rideable, not really enjoyable, not fiscally feasible to shut down, even temproarily and badly needed. maybe CP is afraid MS will re?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????????? ? ???? ?????????????????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ?? ????????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?????????? ???? ?????????? ??? ??????????????? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ?????????? ? ????????? ???? ?????????? ???????????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???????? ???? ????????????????? ????? ?????????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?????????????????????????????????????? ????? ? ????????? ?? ????????
now, about those trims....TAKE 'EM off!!! let the coaster break itself in, for pete's sake!!! it's going on 10 years old and it probably hasn't even been broken in yet. Eagle as example again(sorry) there was a four or five year period where the Eagle ROCKED!!! it was around the 6 to 10 year old range. it was getting roughter, but still fast. they never used that trims, except on the helix sometimes, and even then only when they were racing it, which they did for at least the last half of the day. they even ran it backwards for the 10th anniversary. it was just this perfectly broken in wooden coaster. comfortable and not too rough, it was developing a good personality because they were letting it do so. they just let it do what it wanted /needed/was born to do. afer 5 more years of that, though, it now is in BAD shape. still rideable, not really enjoyable, not fiscally feasible to shut down, even temproarily and badly needed. maybe CP is afraid MS will re?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????????? ? ???? ?????????????????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ?? ????????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?????????? ???? ?????????? ??? ??????????????? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ?????????? ? ????????? ???? ?????????? ???????????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???????? ???? ????????????????? ????? ?????????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?????????????????????????????????????? ????? ? ????????? ?? ????????
Jeff is on the right track (so to speak). The wheels on Mean Streak cannot follow the track curves, and this is a problem. The question of why Cedar Point doesn't do anything about it (i.e. new trains) is that there isn't a whole lot they *can* do. Trains are readily available from Philadelphia Toboggan and from Gerstlauer...and trains from both manufacturers handle curves in about the same way (i. e. poorly). Only the trains built by Great Coasters Int'l. (among currently available wood coaster trains) will handle those curves, and I think GCI has their hands full at the moment.
The one thing the park can do to improve the way the ride runs is to apply lubricant to the turns. They did that early in the season, and I know they use an anti-seize lubricant on the wheels. Trouble is, it isn't enough. That lubrication washes and wears off, and the coaster starts running poorly again. Any time you hear the coaster wheels squealing, you know that the wheels are sliding sideways on the road steel. It is an action which will wear out the rails and the wheels.
Of course, there are 1,001 reasons to NOT grease the track: the lubricant is a safety hazard to ride inspectors, it gets kicked up by the wheels and soils the train...and sometimes the passengers, it's messy, it's a difficult job...and on and on and on. But there is only one reason why the rails need lubricant: because the coaster runs better that way. In the absence of properly articulated wheel sets, as Gemini has, lubricant is the one thing the park can do.
Mean Streak's other problem is rideability, not necessarily associated with the cornering problem. The cars tend to bounce an awful lot, resulting in a jackhammer effect on the riders. This is where the hard seat backs come in. If you get your back clear of the seatback, a ride on Mean Streak is tolerable. But if you sit back, it will hurt like crazy. The solution, then, is to replace the hard foam seatbacks with the m?? ??????????? ??????????? ???? ?????????? ????? ??? ???? ????????? ?? ???????? ???? ??? ???????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??????????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ? ??? ????? ?????????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ???????? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ??????????? ???????? ???? ???????? ??? ??????????? ????????? ??? ????? ???? ???????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ???????????????????????? ???????? ?????????????? ? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ??????? ???????????
The one thing the park can do to improve the way the ride runs is to apply lubricant to the turns. They did that early in the season, and I know they use an anti-seize lubricant on the wheels. Trouble is, it isn't enough. That lubrication washes and wears off, and the coaster starts running poorly again. Any time you hear the coaster wheels squealing, you know that the wheels are sliding sideways on the road steel. It is an action which will wear out the rails and the wheels.
Of course, there are 1,001 reasons to NOT grease the track: the lubricant is a safety hazard to ride inspectors, it gets kicked up by the wheels and soils the train...and sometimes the passengers, it's messy, it's a difficult job...and on and on and on. But there is only one reason why the rails need lubricant: because the coaster runs better that way. In the absence of properly articulated wheel sets, as Gemini has, lubricant is the one thing the park can do.
Mean Streak's other problem is rideability, not necessarily associated with the cornering problem. The cars tend to bounce an awful lot, resulting in a jackhammer effect on the riders. This is where the hard seat backs come in. If you get your back clear of the seatback, a ride on Mean Streak is tolerable. But if you sit back, it will hurt like crazy. The solution, then, is to replace the hard foam seatbacks with the m?? ??????????? ??????????? ???? ?????????? ????? ??? ???? ????????? ?? ???????? ???? ??? ???????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??????????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ? ??? ????? ?????????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ???????? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ??????????? ???????? ???? ???????? ??? ??????????? ????????? ??? ????? ???? ???????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ???????????????????????? ???????? ?????????????? ? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ??????? ???????????
You shouldn't lay it all at Summers feet. Summers/Dinn built some very good coasters. They gave CP what they wanted -- a wooden coaster that would break records for height and speed. Even at that time there were people who were saying that you can't push a wooden coaster that far. It looks like they were right. Like Ron Toomer said, you build the park what they want.
This all makes me keep thinking about PKI. CP can claim ignorance. Even though articles and rumors about the huge amount of money it was going to take to keep the Texas Giant running started showing up almost immediately, it was still new and CP couldn't have truly known what it was getting itself into until MS was already underway. What made Fiesta Texas think they were going to make it work, I have no idea. Now Son of Beast? It will be interesting.
This all makes me keep thinking about PKI. CP can claim ignorance. Even though articles and rumors about the huge amount of money it was going to take to keep the Texas Giant running started showing up almost immediately, it was still new and CP couldn't have truly known what it was getting itself into until MS was already underway. What made Fiesta Texas think they were going to make it work, I have no idea. Now Son of Beast? It will be interesting.
Son of Beast will be interesting. But I wouldn't expect the same problems with SOB that MS has. Remember, there are a lot of differences between the two: different gauges, different trains, designers, etc. Ironically, SOB is being built by the same company that build the Rattler, RCCA. Does anyone out there know who designed the Rattler anyway?
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Scott W. Short
sshort@mediaone.net
http://welcome.to/midwestcoastercentral
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Scott W. Short
sshort@mediaone.net
http://welcome.to/midwestcoastercentral
Actually it was John "Raise the Bottom of the Drop" Pierce, not to be confused with Fred Pearce who, with John Miller, built the coaster at Chippewa Lake.
As I understand it, Pierce also did some of the reworking on Mean Streak when they reprofiled the top of the second hill and lowered the top of the third hill. When Pierce went to work on Mean Streak, many of us were just hoping that he wouldn't raise the bottom of the first drop like he did on the Rattler, the Wild One, the Wildcat,...
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
As I understand it, Pierce also did some of the reworking on Mean Streak when they reprofiled the top of the second hill and lowered the top of the third hill. When Pierce went to work on Mean Streak, many of us were just hoping that he wouldn't raise the bottom of the first drop like he did on the Rattler, the Wild One, the Wildcat,...
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
RideMan -- You are right of course. I realized that later. I was just re-reading some coaster history and those were exactly the names that were in my mind. If I remember correctly, Pierce also changed the kind of wood used in the track for MS when they did the major retracking of the first third of the ride. It's kind of hard to blame him for his "Raise the Bottom" attitude. If any of us faced the legal assult Fiesta had to go through, we would probably react strongly too.
I remember reading something about a park that made several modifications to it's new woody (opened same year of Mean Streak). If I remember correctly they had to size it down after a accident anyway. Is that what we are talking about?
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AKA: bodyin thewaterball fountain.
Paddlewheel Excursions: 12
Jokes on PE: 120
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AKA: bodyin thewaterball fountain.
Paddlewheel Excursions: 12
Jokes on PE: 120
The Rattler opened in 1992. It suffered from the problems that everyone involed were convinced they could avoid. First there were relativey small modifications and eventually (in 1994?) the length of the first drop was reduced to around 120 ft. As I recall, a trial lawyer in Texas took out ads in papers around Texas advertising that anyone who thought they had been injured at Fiesta Texas should contact him. Needless to say Fiesta was attacked with law suits that they had to settle or defend. I am probably the only one here goofy enough to still have such things around, but if you can find a March 1995 issue of INSIDE TRACK it has an interview with Pierce announcing his retirement from coaster design. It has an interesting perspective on building big wooden coasters.
I agree with Scott that it is ironic that SOB is being built by the same poeple that built the Rattler. When you consider the fact that the Rattler ended Pierces career, the Summers/Dinn partnership ended soon after Mean Streak and the almost erie fact that Curtis Summers died exactly one year to the day after Mean Streak opened, I'm not sure I would bet the farm in a 200 foot woodie.
I agree with Scott that it is ironic that SOB is being built by the same poeple that built the Rattler. When you consider the fact that the Rattler ended Pierces career, the Summers/Dinn partnership ended soon after Mean Streak and the almost erie fact that Curtis Summers died exactly one year to the day after Mean Streak opened, I'm not sure I would bet the farm in a 200 foot woodie.
Thing is, even S/D's smaller woodies could beat the hell out of you. Look at Wolverine Wildcat, a 1988 S/D double out-and-back at Michigan's Adventure. That ride rattles as badly, if not worse, than Mean Streak. It's 89ft high or there about. It feels almost exactly like MS. In fact, MS and WW tied head-to-head in the coaster poll, although MS edged out WW overall.
And what about the Predator at Darien Lake? That thing'll kill you after a couple rides. Guess who built that?
Personally, I think CCI has proven that the right designer can build a huge woodie that won't tear itself and its riders apart. For proof, I offer Shivering Timbers.
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Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill.
Personally, I think CCI has proven that the right designer can build a huge woodie that won't tear itself and its riders apart. For proof, I offer Shivering Timbers.
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Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill.
The year that Shivering Timbers opened, 1998, Wolverine Wildcat got a new train. The new train included a significant change from the old train: the new train has brake fins on it. At least one person has observed that some of the track-ties on Wolverine Wildcat have shown some damage because apparently there is insufficient clearance between the brake fin and the track tie. Kind of like the situation Cedar Point ran into on Jr. Gemini. So that is one possible answer. In any case, I did not ride Wolverine Wildcat prior to 1998, but people who did ride it in earlier years tell me that it ran very nicely until the new train was installed. Perhaps the gauging is not quite right on the new train? Perhaps the track needs re-capped?
The Predator has those stupid trailered cars on it that are incapable of going around corners. There is less curve banking on Predator than on Raging Wolf Bobs (Geauga Lake) so the problem of trailered-car shuffle is worse on Predator. When Predator is going straight up and down, it runs very nicely. It's going around corners that it will shake your fillings loose, and that isn't the fault of Summers/Dinn, but rather of PTC.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
The Predator has those stupid trailered cars on it that are incapable of going around corners. There is less curve banking on Predator than on Raging Wolf Bobs (Geauga Lake) so the problem of trailered-car shuffle is worse on Predator. When Predator is going straight up and down, it runs very nicely. It's going around corners that it will shake your fillings loose, and that isn't the fault of Summers/Dinn, but rather of PTC.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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