Maverick Lift

Without the use of an "outside" force such as LSM's, a hydraulic launch or other such system. You won't find a coaster that goes higher than the top of it's lift at any point. It's simple physics.

Drop a basketball from a set height, if you drop it and don't throw it at the ground. It's impossible for it to reach the same height it started at.

Yes, all true. I should never theorize before my second cup of coffee. :)

So, why doesn't the second train advance to the base of the lift until the first train reaches the block prior to the launch?

EDIT:

MaverickLaunch said:
I see no way possible for the train to do what you've described, despite the rate of speed on the hill climb.

I read something, somewhere which stated that the rate of speed that a train crests the hill has only a negligible impact on it's speed when it hits the bottom. I think the reference was for Intimidator 305, when they were talking about the trim brake on the downhill, I suggested instead they reduce the rate of speed that the train crests the hill (pretty fast on that ride). But apparently it makes little difference.

True in most cases, but in this case, it's the height of the latter elements (as John mentioned) that makes it impossible for the train to "rollback" up and over the lift, and not the impact of initial speed.

The idea that initial speed has only a negligible impact is based on the idea that the train will reach terminal velocity at some point while travelling down the drop. Maverick's drop is relatively short, and it's initial speed is relatively high. As such, it's not unreasonable to think such a "rollback" could occur.

After all, if the train were launched up the lift hill at 50mph, and there were a 170' hill after the first drop, the train could, in fact, roll back over the lift hill.

Again, that's a special case, but it can happen.

Red Garter Rob said:
Drop a basketball from a set height, if you drop it and don't throw it at the ground. It's impossible for it to reach the same height it started at.

But Maverick isn't a true drop. It's being sped over the top of the lift hill. Much like if you dribbled the basketball rather than dropping it. It could, theoretically, have an element post lift which was higher than the lift.

RideMan said:
Of the coasters built at Cedar Point since, say, 1960, which was the first to use this type of double flush loading?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I can only think of TTD and Maverick. Does Gemini count? Two trains loading in one station at the same time, right? Perhaps Wildcat if memory serves me correctly.

Did Jumbo Jet load that way as well? I only rode it once and do not really remember. It did have short trains.

Wildcat did only 1 "train" (ride vehicle?) at a time. And with separate load/unload stations.

Since we all know (from previous discussion in this group) that the second train on Maverick is manually dispatched, it is probable (remember, I have not seen the programming...) that the train holds behind the base of the lift until it is manually dispatched from there, then the automatic system would carry it through the block at the base of the lift and on up and over.

No correct answers yet on the dual flush loading question. I am surprised; I guess this crowd is showing its age or its lack of institutional memory. I am not talking about separate load and unload (a la Blue Streak 1964-1993, Millennium Force, Wildcat, Disaster Transport, and apparently the Mine Ride 1969-?), and Gemini is a special case. I'm talking about two separate in-line stations for flush loading, as we see on Dragster and Maverick.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Avalanche Run - 2 loading stations, each with yellow spots on the floor for each row.

Avalanche Run was going to be my guess too, before that I was going to say Demon Drop (which loaded 3 at a time) before I reread and saw the word coaster.

~Rob

And we have a winner. Avalanche Run of course is the one. And I'm guessing Rob didn't even need the hint. As I recall Avalanche Run actually had shotguns in addition to the yellow spots, but that is a pretty hazy memory.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RideMan said:

I am not talking about separate load and unload (a la Blue Streak 1964-1993, Millennium Force, Wildcat, Disaster Transport, and apparently the Mine Ride 1969-?), and Gemini is a special case. I'm talking about two separate in-line stations for flush loading, as we see on Dragster and Maverick.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Any photos of Blue Streak's and Mine Ride's seperate loading stations?

Yes it did Dave. Matter of fact, the dots for the rear station could still be seen in the back storage room that was behind the relocated OP booth up until the building came down.

I knew that was why you knew about the dots!

Speaking of dots, the red dots have been sandblasted from the remnants of the Blue Streak's old loading platform, but if you know where to look you can see where they were.

I have video around here somewhere that does not show the Blue Streak unloading area, but it does show an empty train being rolled into the load station, being loaded, dispatched, and checked in about 20 seconds. I'll post the clip to Vimeo and drop a link here...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

An additional wrinkle to throw into the single or separate load/unload debate; dual stations don't allow for the usage of bins. How much time is lost on each dispatch catering to the dolts who treat Cedar Point like a backpacking trip?

As promised, I've just uploaded the video of the Blue Streak load, from circa 1991 (VHS did not allow for metadata!). As of this moment it hasn't processed yet, so you can't watch it, but I am going to bed. Within the next hour or so, you should be able to watch it at:

http://www.vimeo.com/rideman/bluestreak1991

It's a neat clip, because in this one clip you can see several things that Just Aren't Done anymore which were completely normal right up until the station was reconfigured and the computer was added in 1994. Notice how quickly the train is loaded and dispatched. Notice how the lap bars and seat belts are checked, particularly on the third and fourth cars. And notice how everybody *moves* when the bell rings!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Yeah I remember Blue Streak back in its prime. That was one hopping station. With the workers hanging at the edge of the station making sure the buzz bars were somewhat tight.

Don't even get me going on the backpackers that need to off load every ride. Way too much time is wasted.

No metal station bars? What is this sorcery!?

Did it make things more difficult?

Did the ride op just... ride the train checking the restraints....

Why do you think the train has running boards? 8-)

And that was pretty much standard. I have a still photo here showing a ride op riding the second car and assisting with a seat belt in row 4, where the train has already advanced about a third of a car length. The still photo is dated June 5, 1992, which would have been CoasterMania that year. My old photos have better metadata than my old VHS tapes.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I have witness them kill the lift hill, do the sprint over to the lift hill to make sure the bars were somewhat locked. Which I use that loosely, because I hardly remember a ride where I came back with the bar tighter. Man I miss them days of insane air time where your butt was barely in the seat and the freedom of movement instead of the stapled position your in now.

Here is another Blue Streak memory anybody remember the operator that moved the big stick to control the brakes?