magnums 3rd hill
I heard that there was some retrofitting on magnums 3rd hill a year after it was open.i also heard that the trims were moved to there present location.does anybody know about this???what exactly took place?
We've been over this a hundred times, but here it is again... check the POV in the gallery to see the video from 1989.
The drop before the pretzel went a lot lower, and apparently caused more of a whipping motion than was comfortable. I personally don't remember, but that's what I've been told.
Look here:
http://www.guidetothepoint.com/thepoint/gallery/img.asp?img=cp00magoff20.jpg
You'll notice that there are cross beams in the supports with pedestals at the middle. That's where the track used to go.
The trims were at the top of that hill. Also, the track ties coming out of the pretzel were spaced further apart than they are now.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
The drop before the pretzel went a lot lower, and apparently caused more of a whipping motion than was comfortable. I personally don't remember, but that's what I've been told.
Look here:
http://www.guidetothepoint.com/thepoint/gallery/img.asp?img=cp00magoff20.jpg
You'll notice that there are cross beams in the supports with pedestals at the middle. That's where the track used to go.
The trims were at the top of that hill. Also, the track ties coming out of the pretzel were spaced further apart than they are now.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
I haven't looked at the POV on the site 'cause I've got it on VHS...but Jeff...does that POV have the audio on it, so you can hear the up-stops clanking against the rails? The pretzel was actually completely re-tracked in...I believe in 1995, with a thicker-gauge steel and a larger diameter backbone all the way through the pretzel. In fact, they didn't do it right, so the day after CoasterMania that year, they closed Magnum for a couple of weeks to add two more track sections.
I never rode Magnum before the third hill was reprofiled, but I have to think that at the bottom of the third hill is a much better place for the trim brakes than at the top of that hill.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
I never rode Magnum before the third hill was reprofiled, but I have to think that at the bottom of the third hill is a much better place for the trim brakes than at the top of that hill.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
If I remember correctly, the banking angle of the pretzel was also changed somewhat in the retracking.
As for the brakes, I think the current ones may be more necessary for timing and stress than for ride comfort. From a riders point of view, I think the reprofile after the first year was very successful and the ride runs great with those brakes open. Dave is also correct (as usual) that the brakes at the top of the third hill, when the hill was in its original shape, were not successful. The neck-breaker effect at the bottom of the hill was still there, it just happened more slowly and made the rest of the ride relatively slow and dull.
As for the brakes, I think the current ones may be more necessary for timing and stress than for ride comfort. From a riders point of view, I think the reprofile after the first year was very successful and the ride runs great with those brakes open. Dave is also correct (as usual) that the brakes at the top of the third hill, when the hill was in its original shape, were not successful. The neck-breaker effect at the bottom of the hill was still there, it just happened more slowly and made the rest of the ride relatively slow and dull.
The POV video(America's Greatest Coaster Thrills) shows the 3rd hill after the retracking. The POV video(Amazing Rides) shows the hill before the retracking. You can tell the difference if you put the video in slow mode.
I clearly remember the Magnum before it was reprofiled. First, NO padding on the lap bars, and minimal padding in the seats. I remember a news story regarding people getting bumped, bruised and cut (??) on Magnum.
Magnum wasn't originally designed to be 200+ feet tall, but somewhere in the high 180's. When CP went back to Arrow and asked them to go over 200, I believe that Arrow only changed the first hill, and did not alter the rest of the design. You can see the alteration to the first drop. It smoothly arcs to 55 degrees, then there appears to be a "bump" going to 60 degrees. It is this change that made the 3rd hill a major porblem.
The ascent and curve over the top of the hill were awesome. However, when the train began to descend, the bodies were still in the ascending motion. The result was a stong jerk downward and the subsequent slam into the seat at the bottom. I rode it the 2nd weekend of operation 8 times and my thighs were majorly bruised. They eventually added trims that first year on the top of the hill, which really interferred with the ride. After the first year they reprofiled the hill, then the turnaround.
Idora Wildcat
Magnum wasn't originally designed to be 200+ feet tall, but somewhere in the high 180's. When CP went back to Arrow and asked them to go over 200, I believe that Arrow only changed the first hill, and did not alter the rest of the design. You can see the alteration to the first drop. It smoothly arcs to 55 degrees, then there appears to be a "bump" going to 60 degrees. It is this change that made the 3rd hill a major porblem.
The ascent and curve over the top of the hill were awesome. However, when the train began to descend, the bodies were still in the ascending motion. The result was a stong jerk downward and the subsequent slam into the seat at the bottom. I rode it the 2nd weekend of operation 8 times and my thighs were majorly bruised. They eventually added trims that first year on the top of the hill, which really interferred with the ride. After the first year they reprofiled the hill, then the turnaround.
Idora Wildcat
Actually, when Magnum was first built, it was exactly as it is today. However, the drop before the pretzel began to sink (hence the rumors) making that drop lower than it is today (and lower than it was designed to be). It is also interesting to note that the reprofiling that took place was done in conjunction with the US Geological Survey coming in to shore up the soft soil with a concrete/slag mixture -- one that would better support the weight of the structure.
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Duane Cahill
At it again
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Duane Cahill
At it again
Duane, that drop, or anything else on Magnum was never sinking. The third hill was very painfull in the last seat right from opening day. After the lift chain broke that first season, Magnum was down for a number of days to install the trim brake. People were getting bruised not so much from the third drop, but from the motion over the bunny hops. The lack of under track wheels (skids only) caused the train to slow down and the riders were pitched forward over the bunny hops. The third hill was reprofiled over the winter and the trains were modified with upstop wheels. No work was done to the footers, which means sinking was not a problem.
But the Lemon Chill guy told me...
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Duane Cahill
Considering going back into hibernation
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Duane Cahill
Considering going back into hibernation
I would add to Pete's coments that you didn't have be in the last seat for the third hill to be painfull and I saw more than bruised people during the opening weeks. Twice in one day I saw bloody noses and mouths from riders hitting their faces.
The odd part is that I liked it. The first day I rode Magnum there was nobody there (early weekday of opening week) and got 20 or so quick rides in first thing. It really was hard to take but it sure was fun! *** This post was edited by Tim on 2/15/2001. ***
The odd part is that I liked it. The first day I rode Magnum there was nobody there (early weekday of opening week) and got 20 or so quick rides in first thing. It really was hard to take but it sure was fun! *** This post was edited by Tim on 2/15/2001. ***
"Magnum wasn't originally designed to be 200+ feet tall, but somewhere in the high 180's. When CP went back to Arrow and asked them to go over 200, I believe that Arrow only changed the first hill, and did not alter the rest of the design."
The profile doesn't look like it has a bump to me...
http://www.guidetothepoint.com/thepoint/gallery/img.asp?img=cp00magoff21.jpg
In fact, if the first drop were any shorter, I doubt very much that an empty train in the morning would have made it over the second hill. It barely can do it now in a stiff wind. I think you're perpetuating urban legend.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
The profile doesn't look like it has a bump to me...
http://www.guidetothepoint.com/thepoint/gallery/img.asp?img=cp00magoff21.jpg
In fact, if the first drop were any shorter, I doubt very much that an empty train in the morning would have made it over the second hill. It barely can do it now in a stiff wind. I think you're perpetuating urban legend.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
There's still the unresolved question as to why there are those supports (presumably for a staircase) on the downhill side of the lift hill. Perhaps they weren't sure which side would have the chain lift ;)
Speaking as one who has ridden Magnum in a stiff wind...it wouldn't make it over that second hill in a strong wind if the first hill were any shorter. With the train fully loaded, single train operation in the cold and wind, many of us thinking, "They can't be running in this weather, can they?", it was barely making it over the second hill, brakes off on the third drop, and halfway through the turnaround hitting the wind head on was like slamming into a brick wall. But we made it back to the station in time to ride it again...!
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
There is definately an "adjustment" in the first drop angle of Magnum, about 1/5 of the way down, the angle of drop increases more rapidly than the rest of the curve to 60 degrees.
I will try to find the article (if I kept it) that discussed how CP, after they were told the height of the lift, went back to Arrow and asked to be the first to go over 200 feet. Also, even with the 200 foot hill, Magnum has stalled in the turnaround, Gemini has rolled back (which resulted in the lowering of the turn over the station), MF rolled back, MS has rolled back, I hear that Raptor has rolled back, Villain rolled back. Just because it seems that the ride would not make it over hill # 2 in a strong wind doesn't mean that Arrow wouldn't have built it that way anyway.
Idora Wildcat
I will try to find the article (if I kept it) that discussed how CP, after they were told the height of the lift, went back to Arrow and asked to be the first to go over 200 feet. Also, even with the 200 foot hill, Magnum has stalled in the turnaround, Gemini has rolled back (which resulted in the lowering of the turn over the station), MF rolled back, MS has rolled back, I hear that Raptor has rolled back, Villain rolled back. Just because it seems that the ride would not make it over hill # 2 in a strong wind doesn't mean that Arrow wouldn't have built it that way anyway.
Idora Wildcat
Magnum rolled back in the turn-around because the trims didn't compensate for wind speed and direction at the time. This is a huge factor. I've been on the ride in said conditions and you can feel how slow it gets. The most pronounced difference is the ride back to the station. This was a case with the trims totally open, in fact.
Gemini is just flawed (Toomer: "We made that second hill a little too high"), Mean Streak was over-trimmed on its rollbacks, The Force ran empty in cold conditions (and they knew about that but sent the train anyway), Raptor can't run in strong winds (I think from the north, but I could be wrong) and Villain wasn't properly lubricated when it rolled back.
The point: Magnum would never make it over the second hill if the drop was much shorter. Take it from someone (or actually several of us) who have been on the ride in near-rollback headwind conditions (Dan's 1,000th ride day).
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
Gemini is just flawed (Toomer: "We made that second hill a little too high"), Mean Streak was over-trimmed on its rollbacks, The Force ran empty in cold conditions (and they knew about that but sent the train anyway), Raptor can't run in strong winds (I think from the north, but I could be wrong) and Villain wasn't properly lubricated when it rolled back.
The point: Magnum would never make it over the second hill if the drop was much shorter. Take it from someone (or actually several of us) who have been on the ride in near-rollback headwind conditions (Dan's 1,000th ride day).
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
After much digging though my collection of ACE magazines, I found at least part of the info I was looking for. In Roller Coaster Magazine Volume X, Issue 4 (Fall, 1989), there is an interview of Richard Kinzell by Paul Rueben discussing the recent instillation of Magnum. In the article, Kinzell states that Arrow originally submitted a design of 187 feet. This led the CP board of directors to request that if the ride was going to be that high, why not go 200 feet high? Ron Toomer followed up by stating that he could do it by increasing the angle of descent to 60 degrees. Kinzell also states in the article that he came up with the idea for Magnum after watching a TV show featuring Togo's Bandit in March of 1988. Assuming that it took a bit of time to come up with the idea, get the board to approve the ride, do the land studies, design the ride, manufacture the ride, ship and construct the ride in time for testing in anticipation of a May 1989 opening, if the ride was indeed altered once the process was begun, it seems possible to me that Arrow may have indeed changed the first hill and left the rest of the ride. I also base this assertion on the fact that Arrow has screwed up a number of other designs that required EXTENSIVE modifications (The BAT, Drachen Fire, and the rough transitions in their multi-loopers). The question is, did Arrow raise the lift 18 feet and not alter the rest of the ride? If they did, then that would definately be a primary reason for the violence of the original 3rd hill.
Idora Wildcat
Idora Wildcat
how tall is the second hill?it crawls over the second hill now,if the first hill was designed to be 187 feet tall,than they would of had to redesign the whole ride.
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