Loose Article Policies

I couldn't agree more with you, I am saying that sometimes it seems like that is their thought process sometimes.

Loops/inversions don't equal things falling out. Airtime, yes, but loops, no.

southpuddle said:
To some extent I feel the same way about Corkscrew, but that bunnyhop before the loop is pretty powerful.

It was always fun to watch hats fly off the trains on that bunny hop. The person at controls has a perfect view of it.

mk522 said:
Why offer free bins, Jeff, because they hate money?

Yeah, smart ass, because this is just like giving away Soak City, the last time I used that phrase. (Insert eye roll here.)

One of the problems is organizational. I suspect lockers fall under merchandise, which is a different budget, which means that operations probably has no case for getting them.

But go to Universal, and you can tell those lines are less distinct. Lockers are an expense related to the operation of the ride.

Departments don't talk or share any cohesive visions or goals as much as they should. There are turf wars in some cases tied to budgets.

The way I see it, there are a couple of issues here that need to be addressed to really understand the problem and the solution.

Separating people from their belongings for a sometimes multi-hour wait in a queue is not a good idea. Worse yet, you have people like me who have sworn off park lockers thanks to having expensive equipment (specifically my 50mm camera lens) destroyed in them (fun fact: The park's liability for the crap you put in their locker is capped at $5.00) due to the brain-dead design of the locker system. After all, part of the reason people carry crap with them is because that crap they are carrying is how they occupy themselves while waiting. As for the sheer amount of crap...well, for us adults who schlep ourselves to the park, we can't understand it...why not just leave all that crap in the car and go get it when needed? But what about the "kid" who is in the park on a bus trip? The bus is locked up. Or Dad's car is locked up...or even missing in action, because Dad is taking a nap back at the hotel. Like it or not, people are going to have to carry a certain amount of crap with them in the park. Do they need all of it? Probably not. But that's just the way it is, and it's the way it's been for decades.

Another issue that needs to be addressed is the whole idea of what is a "loose item" anyway? When I ride, I carry all kinds of junk with me; but then, I always have all kinds of junk with me. Wallet, keys, penknife, pen, pencil, tape measure, change, cell phone, eyeglasses, earbud, and PDA...and that's just what I have on me right now. When I go into the park I tend to leave the PDA behind, but you can add video camera, eyeglass cord, note pad and camera stylus to the collection. And yet, at all times, carrying all that crap, I'm completely self-contained, and more to the point, NONE of that stuff interferes with riding the ride. It doesn't interfere with the restraints, it fits in the seat, and it can be demonstrated that every bit of it is secure...nothing is actually "loose". This is, of course, intentional. Perhaps the first thing to do is get a good handle on what is permitted and what isn't. And perhaps even some idea of *why*. I had an incident some time ago at Another Park where I was boarding a B&M inverted coaster with a small bag attached to my pin-buckle leather belt. This bag was demonstrably not a "loose item", and it tucked in very nicely between the "armrest" and my thigh anyway. But for some reason that was not permitted...yet my camera bag, a waist-belt bag with a Fastex buckle...would have been OK on the same ride even though it won't fit in the seat. Where is the logic in that? In another park, a ride attendant at the ride entrance was hassling me about the same small bag...until I demonstrated not that it was secure, but rather that its contents were not photographic in nature! There is no logic to this!

Shifting gears a little, though, I think one real issue is that the problem with the bins isn't really a problem with the bins at all. Providing some simple form of storage at trackside is really the best solution to the problem of all the stuff that people carry around. The problem is, there isn't a good way to implement it. Typically the stuff gets put into a bin on the unload side of the ride. That means that riders have to pass through the train and dump their stuff, then return for loading. Bins are necessary (rather than just a track-side shelf or basket as on, say, Mr. Freeze) because there are between one and five other trainloads of people out there whose crap needs to be dealt with. Personally, I think what is needed is some means for people to dump their crap quickly, for short-term, just before they board the train, and some means for collecting that crap when exiting.

Some of the parks have come up with the entirely reasonable idea of providing a bin (usually a mesh pouch with a Velcro closure) right on the ride vehicle. I like the idea of exploiting that empty space between the seats on the Intamin coasters and adding a little enclosed box there. Or perhaps a system of electronic lockers that are double-sided: as you enter the ride, you put your stuff in a locker; when you exit you pull your stuff out through a door on the back side. How about a transport system using t+1 bins (t=# of trains) so that you put your stuff into Bin #1 just before you board and that bin moves to the unload side and you take it out as you exit, while the group about to board uses bin #t+1?

What I don't understand is why, when it is known that people carry crap with them in parks, and that excessive crap on the ride is generally a bad idea, nobody seems to have yet come up with a truly innovative or creative solution to the problem of handling the crap.

--Dave Althoff, Jr. (enough ranting for one night...)

I like your idea of using the wasted space between ride seats. Why not provide a compartment to put stuff in, and then have that compartment automatically lock (maybe a magnet) activated by the ride op, and once the train returns to the station, the magnetic locks de-activate...

Sorry about your lens though...I feel your pain...I treat my lenses like gold...I'd probably cry if one was damaged as yours was.

Incidentally, I brought my camera bag (probably 15 pounds with lenses) on Space Mountain and pretty much everything here at Disney. It seems so strange. Granted, they don't have 300-foot+ roller coasters, but still. Totally different mindset.

Items I carry into the park:

1. A business card holder that contains ONLY a credit card and my driver's license. I leave my actual wallet in the car or at home.

2. Cash money.

3. My sunglasses

4. A baseball hat.

My wife carries the phone. That's it! Why would anyone need anything else?

Forgot one important item: CAR KEYS. The wife usually carries those as well since she doesn't go on any of the more intense ride. Her idea of going on an intense ride is sitting on of the benches that isn't balanced so it rocks when she sits on it. :)

^ I put my spare valet car key in my cargo pocket so I don't carry the whole big key chain & remote entry. I use the zipper cargo pocket so I know it won't fall out accidentally. I use a thin velcro sports wallet with only medical info (if I get maimed while in the park they'll need my blood type :) a credit card, drivers license, $20 and season pass similar to your business card holder. I printed up a trip report card to pass time in line. I put that and a Pentel pencil in a leather eyeglass case which I pulled the metal clip out of it to make it flat. Even when it gets wet in a downpour the card stays dry. I admit if you're with a group that goes off in different directions then a cell phone can be handy. But even the smallest one is too big to carry and small enough to worry about losing. So I don't take one.

I've only had a season pass for two years. I'm only used to seeing bins which I think are convenient when I've had to use them if I'm carry something else or don't want to shove my hat into my shirt. People seem to hustle getting things. But I don't work there so I don't see the whole day of bin usage and loading problems. I don't have anything to compare it to in the past so I have to say the bins don't bother me. Free lockers would be better so people take care of that outside of the line. Pockets in front of the seats which works for tamer rides at other parks, I don't think would work too well on the monster roller coasters, not to mention all the different types of roller coasters they have at CP. It would encourage too many cameras which are dangerous on most of CP's coasters. Unless those pockets lock magnetically. I've never been on one that has those. So I don't know specifically how they work.

The bins are not entirely a bad idea. They do solve the problem of fighting with guests about leaving articles in a locker or with a non-rider, but, it seems to me there are 3 sources for the problems associated with them:

1. Nervous Guests - Gets who are anxious about getting on the ride and/or concerned for their safety typically get right into the ride vehicle and secure their safety harnesses. Problem is that they have forgotten to put these items in the bin, or were so preoccupied worrying about the ride, that they didn't even know they couldn't take it with them on the ride. At this point, harness have to be released, and multiple seats must be rechecked.
2. Slow Guests - Many guests are well aware of the fact that they can leave their belongings in the bin and appreciate its availability. Unfortunately, rather than preparing all of they're articles to drop in the bin, they stand in line and do other things. Once it becomes time for them to load, the step through the train over to the bin, and spend an excessive amount of time securing all of their articles in their bag and what not. Meanwhile, a ride operator has come around and should have already checked they're seat, but they were not in it because they were fooling around with their belongings.
3. Exempt Guests - Many guests believe that they are exempt from the rule. Excuses including, "it's my purse," "but it's small," "I don't want to lose it," "what if someone takes it," "but I did it last time (which they likely got away with by hiding the belonging from a ride operator)," among others, are commonly heard. It's not that they don't know about the policy, they just feel they aren't included. Here, again, they have already taken their seats and likely secured harnesses, which then have to be released and time is lost as the guest then walks to the bin and places their belongings in it. Others believe that it's okay for them to take something on a ride because they were allowed to do it on another ride.

These, in my opinion, are the 3 major flaws in the bin policy. Having even just one person that falls into one of these 3 categories is enough for a ride to miss it's interval. And when it happens every train or cycle, it's easy to see how by the end of an hour, a day, a week, a season, the number of intervals missed could add up to hundreds if not thousands of cycles, and thus thousands of riders. If you could eradicate these issues, things would move much more fluently. It might not completely solve the efficiency problems we've been seeing in recent years, but it certainly would help and be a step in the right direction.

^Spot on! I can't recall the endless amount of times that each one of those problems has happened on multiple rides. I try to take the bear minimum with me when I get in the line....or at least things that can be easily and quickly taken care of (hats, sunglasses, etc). But it's defiantly something, along with the long list of other stuff (see Jeff's new topic), that needs to be addressed.

I bring in my wallet and cellphone. I have a spare key I put in my wallet so I just leave my keys locked in my car.

If I take a camera with me, I just plan on not riding or using a locker.

Sure wish I had thought of that back in 06 when my keys, which was at the time loaded with trinkets that SHOULD have made some kind of noticeable sound, fell and I didn't realize it until my friend and I decided to go into town to get something to eat until the rain stopped. Thankfully, by pure luck, we ran into our other friends who gave us a ride back home. I went back with my mom the next day to grab my keys at lost and found which had been found during the night clean up.