Loading/Unloading

Is it just me or is the loading and unloading of MF's trains taking a lot longer than it used to be? When I went all three trains were just sitting there for like 45 seconds. I thought i remembered 1 train in the unload station, 1 train loading, and 1 running. Was it ever like this?

When they have to check the amount of slack in every belt instead of simply tugging it to make sure that it's secure, it slows them down considerably.

I haven't noticed a change in how they check seat belts. All they did to me was push on my restraint. Also, they all had their thumbs up for a good 30 seconds before letting the next train go.

They have to wait for the train on the track to get in the blocks that is why they have there thumbs up for such a long time

But it used to not be like that. One train would leave the station as one would just be flying by the station, if I remember correctly.

How come on Magnum they don't have to wait for the train to come into the blocks? Once it clears the second hill, they release. It seems backwards, MF should be the one running more quickly, it always has a long line. When I was there 2 weeks ago, Magnum was almost a walk-on, and it's the one that releases the trains at a rapid rate.

I'm no ride op but I believe it's because the train that just cleared the second hill hits the brakes before another train leaves the lift. *** Edited 7/28/2004 12:08:52 AM UTC by fat chris***

I think the slower dispatch intervals are mostly a result of the new seatbelt regulations. Just like what Jeff said, when they have to check the amount of slack in each and every belt on the train, it slows down operation. Dubbslaw3, before the new belt regulations, it was probably easier to dispatch with the speed you are refering to.

Yeah, I can see that. But why did they change the seatbelts. I never understood why. Is it because of the man that died on Superman? How can a new seatbelt prevent anything from happening?

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Erikjc said:
How come on Magnum they don't have to wait for the train to come into the blocks? Once it clears the second hill, they release. It seems backwards, MF should be the one running more quickly, it always has a long line. When I was there 2 weeks ago, Magnum was almost a walk-on, and it's the one that releases the trains at a rapid rate.

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On the contrary, when I was there for 5 consecutive days, they always dispatched when the train went through the knot, after the train was safley past block station.

Millennium Force loading is taking forever this season. That's the main problem. As to why it is taking forever...well, I don't have the patience to stand in that queue and investigate, but I'll bet the seat belts are part of the problem. It's not just that it takes extra time to check all of the belts, there is also the problem of those belts being particularly difficult to fasten. I wonder if they have considered making the belts about 6" *longer* and then marking them 7" from the end with a go/no-go indicator of some kind. If the belts were longer they would be easier to fasten...of course, those belts are almost impossible to adjust once fastened, so maybe I just answered my own question...

Remember also that just because you see a bunch of people standing there with their thumbs up in the air doesn't necessarily mean that the whole crew is ready...there may be a loading problem in the back of the train.

Blocking on Millennium Force is a little bit tricky because it has only four blocks, and there is no dead space between the blocks. It takes about 30 seconds from dispatch until the train clears the lift, so the train can be dispatched 30 seconds before the train ahead *clears* the safety brake...that is, the brake immediately uptrack of the unload station, meaning that the train ahead must be fully advanced into unload before the train just dispatched may clear the top of the lift.

Trouble is, the third train is sitting in unload waiting for the station to clear, and the train on the course cannot clear the safety brake until the train in unload moves into the station. And that can't happen until the train in the station is dispatched! For a Magnum-style efficiency of operation, a lot has to happen on schedule, and there is a lot that can go wrong. If the train is slow moving through the trim brakes at the end of the ride, that can delay lift hill clearance. If a problem at unload keeps the train from advancing, that can delay safety brake clearance which can force a lift stop. In general, the most idiot-proof way for the ride to operate is to not dispatch until the train on the course reaches the safety brake. That way, the train can dispatch, and there is 30 seconds available to get the other trains advanced into the load and unload stations. It might be possible to dispatch sooner, but that leaves less time to advance trains (since one is still on the course and has to clear the trim and safety brakes) and if anything is off just slightly, that train is going to have to wait on the lift hill.

It's worth noting that in this case the "idiot" that the ride is "idiot-proofing" against is more likely to be the ride's block control PLC than the blockhead working the ride controls.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

And regarding Magnum, it takes far longer for the train to reach the top of the lift, and as with all rides, the lift itself is a block. If Magnum dispatches when the train ahead crests the second hill, the train will be around 40 to 50 feet up the lift when the train ahead goes through the safeties over the road. By then the third train is off the transfer and in the station.

Right. From the station to the top of the lift on Magnum takes about a minute. There is also a lot more time from the safety brakes to the transfer table, probably close to 20 seconds right there. Technically, as soon as the first train clears the lift, the second train can leave the station, and in fact if they do that, the second train probably won't clear the lift until the first train is past the safety brake (after the last tunnel). Then the third train can go.

The reason the park waits until the first train crests the second hill is because of the timing...if they sent the trains one right after the other, there would be a long delay in the station after the third train leaves before the first one comes back, then the remaining trains would stack up on the brakes. Waiting until the train gets to the second hill evens out the timing so that each train gets its 75 seconds.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

And as far as "That guy who died on Superman" and "What does the seatbelt thing have to do with it?"

You have to realize that the manufacturer, Intamin, can only do so many things that will both please the general public, and reenforce safety. They dont really have too many options on a design like the restraints on MF, Superman: RoS, TTD, etc...

Unless you want OTSR's.... ;)

Grovite18,

There are things that Intamin and CP could do that do not involve OTSR's, such as retrofitting the TTD seats onto the MF trains, w/o the upper headrest, would remain the same as current.

But that has little to nothing to do with the restraint system, or safety on their rides elsewhere.

The poor design on the blocking of MF is one of the reasons I think it is an over-rated coaster. It seems as if the capacity on this ride is far below what it should be for a record-breaking coaster, and I don't particularly like waiting in line. In my opinion, an extra block would have made the ride much more efficient, but I presume that with the limited space available, that would not be easy to do, but it should have been done. B&Ms generally have extra blocks, and I think that results in easier operation.

My question is whether capacity would be the same if it was designed to run 2 trains and have one station? Why have 3 trains when you can't even dispatch the next train until the train before it has almost at the transfer? Sounds like poor design to me!

-Sam

Well, I think the real problem with the block design is that the ride runs faster than Intamin expected, and I think there is too much variation in the time it takes the train to get through the fixed trim brakes to really be consistent with the dispatch interval. In theory, the second station and third train should be improving capacity by almost eliminating the downtime in the load station. It would be better if the train parked quicker and the gates opened sooner, but that might be asking too much. It takes less time to unload a train than to load a train, so in theory, the configuration used on Millennium Force should maximize efficiency. Trouble is, the ride block is so short compared to the amount of time it takes to get the train loaded.

Oh, and in reference to the restraint issue on Millennium Force...remember, the Millennium Force train is an almost complete redesign from the Superman: Ride of Steel trains. There has never been an incident on Millennium Force, and we don't know for certain that there is a problem with the current seat and restraint design (apart from the fact that the lap bar is capable of crushing things that it shouldn't). Dragster's seat is a better design, but that doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem on Millennium Force. And that gets back to the age old problem: It's hard to fix anything that isn't broke!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Millennium Force can flirt with 1,300 pph if I recall correctly, which is one dispatch every 100 seconds. In practice I was fairly certain they were doing 1,200 pretty regularly before the seatbelt nonsense. I would hardly call that poor capacity.

Most rides have mid-course brakeruns. MF doesn't have one because it'd effect the ride experience drastically. That knocks the capacity down a lot. MCBR's make it where two trains can be running the course of the ride at once. Like Jeff mentioned about the lifts on Magnum and MF. Magnum takes about a minute to clear MF takes almost 20 seconds. That means train 1 clears the lift and train 2 is dispatched up the lift. Train 1 most be in the unload station before the time train 2 is at the top of the lift or the lift has to stop and wait. So in the result of this the operators must give the train on the course enough time to finish the ride before the train behind it can dispatch it.

(Man it's hard to explain blocking systems clearly! :))

But with this seatbelt issue this year the train that is running the course of the ride is finished before they're even ready to dispatch the train in the load station. This not only ruins the capacity it ruins the ride experience a little. One thing cool about MF was that the trains is going 60mph then 10 secs. later it is entering the unload station and you get out with your mind still wondering what just happened. An experience WT and TTD still give.