Last year for 6 trains on Gemini?

Rumor has it that gemini will be getting air-gates next year, and will have the station renovated. I have been told that this will be the last year though, that the ride will be capable of running six trains.

Is there any truth to the 6 trains rumor, and if so, can't the ride be modified to move the helix part back to allow for a longer brake run?

-Sam (who quit at 11 when trying to do Gemini 25 on a Friday night, when it was taking too long)

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Avalanche Run - My first Roller Coaster.
Magnum XL-200 - The BEST Roller Coaster!

What difference will it make to the ride? They are just different type of gates, right?

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AKA Cobraroller on Cbuzz

http://www.guidetothepoint.com/cpplace.aspx?mode=thread&TopicID=12487

RideMan gives his opinion on the Gemini updates.

Personally I think its fine the way it is. Why would CP want to lower the capacity of one of their highest capacity coasters? Even if they rarely run 6 trains thats no reason to make it unable to run 6.Its been running fine for 25 years. I see no need for them to basically down-grade one of their best coasters.

Talk about a line that never stopped moving! I always hate it later in the evenings when they take off a train for any of the coasters. Makes re-rides more difficult, yet i understand why they do it, it still irks me. Turns what you think is a walkon ride into a 10-15 minute station wait, GRRRR! :)

If its not broke, don't fix it!

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When you visit CP, visit my Mill, est. 1835

Well I think it deseves its own thread. Hopefully it won't stray off into closing land, as this is one of the important hot topics about the park.

On one trip this year they had 4 trains running, and the line was shooting half-way throught the midway. I've never seen that before. Is it becoming economically a bad idea to run 6 trains? The people are there... they want to ride... I want to ride... heck, on high attendance days I usually head to Gemini just because I know it's the one ride that always had a fast moving line. Now I look and walk by... upset that I'm supposed to wait 20 minutes in line while they run only 4 trains.

If there's a period where there's no train in the station (a.k.a. we're waiting for Gemini to actually get trains in the station) for more than 30 seconds while there's a line waiting outside the station, then you need to add another train.

Is CP's goal this year to have people standing in the queues? Are they losing money from it?

And air gates... yes I can see how that's good. Flatten the station and put in some gates, and I won't have to hear the "Please step behind the yellow line" stuff anymore (why do people not get that?). And computerize the brakes. But if they stop like Mine Ride, I'm gonna cry. At least the Magnum ones pretty much stop the train right where they can release the lap bars.

And if they even think of putting an automated recording...

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18 straight years of real thrills and counting...

yay to the new station! that is one of the most frustrating stations in existance, i hate how your get poured into the back of the trains and are expeceted to pack yourselves in, even though there is barely any room on the station. and the kids..... the KIDS on that station are out of control, if i get bumped in the bum one more time......

I agree that it is very frusterating. I never thought I would wait 15-20 minutes for Gemini, but it seems this year that if you want to ride it, you have to wait that long. It's stupid to have the queues filled and have two trains sitting on the transfers. I see no way how that can be a good decision. First of all, it turns people away who aren't willing to wait that long for Gemini, secondly it removes people that could potentially be spending money from the midways. I'm always a little disgruntled to see a line, but then see two perfectly good trains not being used. The 6 train operation has worked for 25 years, so just leave it alone.

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-Chris Woodard
"We got pop and Gatorade over here for $100 a bottle, so have your credit card ready. Seriously, the food here is so expensive, I just eat the condiments because I can't afford a meal." - MF que DJ 6/16/03

The air gates are necessary in this sue happy nation. The key to airgate operation is making sure that the ride op in charge of opening and closing the airgates is really paying attention. The station itself is rather unique because few coasters today offer you the option of going to the front or the rear of the train early in the que. I think the confusion lies when you enter the station and have to meander through a crowd of people who didn't read the signs that said "Left for the front of train/Right for the back". They all decide to switch in the station causing chaos. I don't like airgates, however if CP saves a bunch of $$ in insurance claims, we all benefit with cost savings. I honestly think that 6 train operation is realisitic with airgates and would challenge CP to test that before deciding to go with 5 train operation.

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Blue people fly sideways when it rains....

It's not a solution to anything. First ask yourself how many people have been hit by trains on the platform in the last twenty years, then ask how many kids have been squished in the gates in the last month. I think you know which number is higher.

Like auto-spiels, this is another thing that CP has clearly not thought out very well.

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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

Likewise, if you really want to install automatic gates on a coaster and make them actually do something useful to protect idiots...put them on the EXIT side!

Actually, the way Cedar Point has handled the gates on their coasters is one of the few things they've gotten right about the retrofits. When the train parks, the ride control system automagically stops the train and *at the same time* opens the lap bars and the gates. A push of a button closes them again; a turn of the switch allows for manual control.

The fact remains that on Gemini, they can still use six trains, and it has nothing to do with installing gates. Put double gates on the platform (as on Millennium Force), make them move quickly but with not a lot of force (kind of like those 'finger safe' electric fans), and it would be very possible to set it up in such a way that the gates have NO effect on ride efficiency. The bigger problem is the seat belts, and as I suggested, a big red arrow on the buckle would help a little, and a different type of buckle would help a lot.

That leaves only one issue that would prevent them from refitting the coaster and running six trains, and that's the control system. There is no reason to change the blocking, but right now the ride is run by hand, and perhaps they want to get away from that. Well, in that case, they just need to do a better job of trimming and parking the train than they do on their other computerized rides. It should not be necessary for the computer to try four times to park the train (after all, the humans don't have that kind of trouble!) and it should not be necessary to bring the train in at a ridiculously slow speed. If they can't come up with a computerized way to run the ride the same way the humans do (why not? Kennywood managed to do it on Thunderbolt...), then perhaps they need to re-think the scope of the problem.

It isn't brain surgery, and it shouldn't be too difficult. The ride was designed the way it was for a reason, and it would be a Bad Thing for them to learn that lesson the hard way...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

If it's true the station is going to be flattened out, that's just excellent; the stairs feel so awkward with lines of people cramping.

The addition of the air gates doesn't bother me, but like Jeff said, they seem to be more of a minor safety hazard for young kids. While I've never heard of a person getting hit by a coaster train, can you imagine the bad publicity CP would get if a mindless kid did get hurt or killed by a coaster (especially considering many parks have the air gates now)? That's why CP has added them; they want to maintain their record as one of the safest parks on the planet.

But the claimed 4 train operation instead of 6? This is horrible news. I've always expected a 5-minute wait from Gemini on the those crowded summer Saturdays. When the park was crowded, 6 trains made the line a breeze; when the park was dead, 3 or 4 operation kept the line consistent. This year, I've noticed they've been running 4 trains on crowded days, and it has been creating unnecessary waits. This is so dissappointing....do they want Gemini to lose the crown as most popular ride (because highest capacity)? When trains aren't filling on a particular day, take a set off; but don't eliminate that 6-train option!

yeah my buddy who works on gemini told me the station is getting air gates, the ride will have automatic running systems and yes, it will not be capable of running 3 trains on each track.... the most it will be able to run is 2 on each track, new blocking systems will be installed so 2 trains on each track (4 trains total) will be the maximum running capacity...

This what a person who works on the ride told me.... and he is a very reliable source :)

season pass visits three times a week have its perks :)

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TTD: 4 (Rollbacks seen: 24)
MF: 18
WT: 8
"C'mon, get off the rails guys, listen to the guy with the Disaster Transport uniform on!"

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RideMan said:

...right now the ride is run by hand, and perhaps they want to get away from that. Well, in that case, they just need to do a better job of trimming and parking the train than they do on their other computerized rides. It should not be necessary for the computer to try four times to park the train (after all, the humans don't have that kind of trouble!) and it should not be necessary to bring the train in at a ridiculously slow speed. If they can't come up with a computerized way to run the ride the same way the humans do (why not? Kennywood managed to do it on Thunderbolt...), then perhaps they need to re-think the scope of the problem

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I agree. It's plain stupid cutting the capacity of one of their best capactiy coasters. And computers taking 4 attempts to park a train when a human can park a train in 1 try is pretty bad. Like Ralph Wiggum said, It's stupid to have a full que and trains sitting on the transfers.

Is it just me, or is Cedar Point making some very stupid descisions this year?

If they rely on the same people to code an auto-park they did on Mine Ride, you can kiss the capacity goodbye. I've never seen a worse example of computerized train parking. Haven't been on in a very, very long time, but if it's still the clapping brakes routine it's not a good one. (On a side note, remember that putting touch screens in the sun is not very smart either. ;))

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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

Everytime I was in the station I heard, dont step on the yellow line... It was worse, yes worse than a recording. The MF and WT recordings arent nearly as bad as the magnum recording though.

I do remember an old gemini recording on the lift though.

They really need ot widden the entrances into the station, the wait is normally because of people blocking the entrance into the station.

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http://said.uc.edu/students/oakleysd/cp/CP.jpg
Now tell me Cedar Point is running out of space.
*** This post was edited by Fury 8/5/2003 10:30:32 PM ***

They've already killed capacity on Gemini a lot this year. The fact they shoot for only 4 trains is doing it. Yesterday they finally placed all 6 on the ride, and the lines appeared to be moving as they should be, as they have for years and years. But earlier in the day when we first walked by the line was beginning about half way from the station in the queue line direct from the entrance, and we opted to walk past it.

I don't know how much parts cost for the trains, so I have no way of saying that they're going to save lots of money by only having 4 out of 6 trains at a time on the ride, nor can I say that having all 6 trains is not a big source of money loss. Perhaps someone with an idea of parts prices can figure that one out.

I remember at Coastermania Q&A that they mentioned Gemini. From the transcript at http://capital2.capital.edu/admin-staff/dalthoff/adventures/tr2003/uscp05.html, "Gemini is a great ride and will always be a great ride, and a great people-mover as well."

Well that certainly will come to an end if they use only 4 trains. 18 years of knowing that when the park is busy that Gemini will still be moving at a decent rate will suddenly be trashed. I keep getting the feeling that they want us to be waiting in a line... may not be their goal, but that's the impression I'm getting.

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18 straight years of real thrills and counting...

[Edited for grammatics.]
*** This post was edited by TekGuy 8/6/2003 12:56:01 PM ***

It begs the question then, what will become of the two other trains? I'm assuming they will keep them in storage and rotate the trains.

I'm glad RideMan brought up the Thunderbolt example because I was going to say the same thing. But in the Tbolt's case, it unfortunately took an accident to change the system.
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2002/2003
KPTM

Even so...

Perhaps a better example is the Jack Rabbit. Like Thunderbolt, it switched from manual to computerized control, and unless you're really paying close attention, as a rider, you'd never notice. And perhaps it's a good example of what should be done to Gemini to automate it...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

What are air gates?

--brennan

A misnomer, mostly.

Better to call them boarding gates. Usually, but not always, operated by air pressure, hence the inaccurate name.

Point is, Cedar Point is, in case you haven't noticed, gradually installing boarding gates on all of its coasters, between the platform and the train.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.