I love/hate EBITDA

Discussion on all things financial as it relates to Cedar Fair and Cedar Point.

Haha, one of the best things you've ever done Walt.

Hate it! ;)

LOL. Too funny.

Cedar Fair is unique with it's mountain of debt yet cash gushing business. Only fitting that it's hardcore fans would have a thread dedicated to one of the more controversial formulas which examines such scenarios.

^Such talk is the reason why I'll never be an accountant. ;)

Speaking of which, and I am just too lazy to go through the call, but someone on another site said Cedar Fair had $90 million set aside for Cap Ex this year? Yowsa!

That's a lot of Planet Snoopys!

You can read it in the transcript of the call. It's in the Q&A part.

So lets take a look at what CF has in store this year. All costs and descriptions in question marks are guesstimated.

Valleyfair: Planet Snoopy ($9 million)
Dorney Park: Planet Snoopy ($8 million)
World of Fun: Planet Snoopy ($5 million)
Knotts: Major Addition? ($22 million?)
Carowinds: Starlight? ($3 million?)
Canada’s Wonderland: GCI? ($12 million?)
Michigan’s Adventure: Waterpark Expansion? ($4 million?)
Kings Island: Small Expansion? ($4 million?)
Kings Dominion: Small Expansion? ($2 million?)
California’s Great America: Small Expansion? ($3 million?)
Cedar Point: Stratosoar? ($5 million?)

So that puts us at $77 million of the $90 million, $13 million short. Where will all that go?

Interesting article too, about the StarFlyer from the Orlando Sentinal. That’s how I arrived at the $5 million cost for a CP StarFlyer.

I find it interesting that they keep talking about how $85-$90 million is the norm. '07, '08, and '09 averaged $77 million/year. Source.

I am sure money is going to go into things that you will not notice too much. Things like painting, general park improvements, maybe upgrading the season pass system....

Maybe some hotel upgrades too...

And maybe a new attraction for NorthEast Ohio's premier waterpark (wishful thinking) :)

Interesting quote--bolds mine:

Dick Kinzel

Our Canadian park right outside Toronto seems to be the sort of week this year and that's the one that's down, but for the most part all the other parks are doing very well.

Apparently Great America is doing "very well" along with all non-CW parks. Apparently the novelty of Behemouth is wearing off and attendance is returning to normal.

crazy horse said:
I am sure money is going to go into things that you will not notice too much. Things like painting, general park improvements, maybe upgrading the season pass system....

Well, except painting and general park improvements aren't capital expenditures, they're maintenance costs.

Upgrading the season pass system could go either way depending on what we're talking about for "upgrades".

DK said, "What we have done with the leaving of our COO, is the regional are reporting to me and we basically -- I haven't empowered them to make decisions, we have very strong general managers also that are managing there parks in a very efficient way."

That is a pretty telling statement. One that I suspect DK wears as a badge of honor but one that I believe is at the core of the problems within Cedar Fair.

Is he saying that the Regional VPs are not empowered to make decisions? If so, can someone explain to me what their job is that would justify their salaries? Are they just the eyes and ears for DK? What type of qualifications does one need for that gig?

Well, if Carrowinds (I think that's the one) is any example, all you need is a last name of Kinzel.

Perhaps it suggests what level of confidence he has in his regional managers, if he hasn't empowered them to make decisions...

(if they don't make decisions, then what the hell do they do?)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Why they implement his decisions, of course. As Picard used to say "Make it so number 1".

Yeah, but it smells like #2.