How Cedar Point Covertly Doubled Their Admission Price (And How Apple Stole a Page Out of Their Playbook)

It’s not about being “fair” to those not using it, it’s about providing the right amount of value to those purchasing it. The capacity of the higher amount of additional attractions at CP balances out the ride wait times for the rest to be less than that of other parks.

The fact that Six Flags cheaps out on rides and doesn’t design them for high capacity or even bother to staff them to get close to the already low capacity renders any supposed SF system moot in comparison to CP FL. It’s Large Red Delicous CP Apples compared to molasses covered small SF crabapples.

XS NightClub said:

It’s not about being “fair” to those not using it, it’s about providing the right amount of value to those purchasing it. The capacity of the higher amount of additional attractions at CP balances out the ride wait times for the rest to be less than that of other parks.

As I mentioned before this is my only beef with Fast Lane. In my opinion, on busy days, the value is not there. The product is over-sold. This diminishes the value for everyone in the park, even more so for the people with Fast Lane. In that regard, I have to agree with OP. The non-payers shouldn't have to endure 100% higher wait times. But the payers absolutely should enjoy better than a 50% wait time reduction.

As someone else suggested a more dynamic system should be in place with a higher starting point on crowded days (even higher depending on how many pre-purchased online). This would solve the aforementioned problems. CP is the only park (with the exception of a couple rides at UO) where I've purchased a "front line" pass that had waits anywhere near 20% of stand-by, let alone 50%.

People need to stop perpetuating the "standby line is 100% longer since FL" myth. It's just not true, no matter how many times you repeat it.

If one repeats the lie enough times, it will then becomes the truth to oneself.

djDaemon said:

People need to stop perpetuating the "standby line is 100% longer since FL" myth. It's just not true, no matter how many times you repeat it.

I will admit after I typed that that I shouldn't have used 100%, my math was off (except in certain outlying circumstances). However, on busy days, Fast Lane does impact stand-by wait times pretty significantly. Much more so than they should. And keep in mind, I'm speaking more on the side of someone who buys Fast Lane. The up-charge value is not there to save half of the stand-by time. They need to find a pricing structure where Fast Lane waits are no more than 15% (perhaps 20% for SV) of stand-by waits. This will allow a better experience for both groups.

It's been my experience that the Fast Lane line, except for a couple of rides during very crowded days, never approaches 50% wait time of the regular line. The last time I used Fast Lane was on a busy Sunday and only Maverick and Steel Vengeance had long Fast Lane lines. Both rides had much shorter Fast Lane lines latter in the day. All other rides were either walk-ons or a less then 15 min. wait. Dragster was a less then 5 min. wait, had four rides on it in a row while the regular line was 1 hour. No problem with the value proposition as far as I'm concerned.

If there is a length of wait problem with Fast Lane, the solution is not to keep increasing prices but to limit the number sold to a lower number. But, I don't think there is any problem as the longer lines for Maverick and Steel Vengeance were probably caused by a great many Fast Lane users flocking to those rides instead of spreading themselves around the park. Not much you can do about that, they post the wait time, just come back later in the day when the line is shorter.

But the payers absolutely should enjoy better than a 50% wait time reduction.

They need to find a pricing structure where Fast Lane waits are no more than 15% (perhaps 20% for SV) of stand-by waits.

You keep stating absolutes which are really just your opinion. That people are paying for FL passes that require waits longer than your preferred percentages of the standby line indicate that other people disagree with your view. Its a little like the notion that no one goes there any more because its too crowded.

Info that would be good to have (and that the park has at least to some degree): how many days are there any FL rides with waits that exceed 50% (or other lower percentages) of the standby line? For how many rides is that the case on any of those given days? And for how long during those given days for those given rides? Is it open to close or only for limited periods during the day? And how many people who buy on days with longer FL waits buy again on future visits?

For non-FL users, how much of an impact is there with FL for the total day? Focus in this thread has really been on one ride. But as others have noted, there are a lot of other rides and experiences in the park for which FL will have little/no impact. Overall guest experience is thus not impacted any much as many people are stating here.

Pete said:

It's been my experience that the Fast Lane line, except for a couple of rides during very crowded days, never approaches 50% wait time of the regular line. The last time I used Fast Lane was on a busy Sunday and only Maverick and Steel Vengeance had long Fast Lane lines. Both rides had much shorter Fast Lane lines latter in the day. All other rides were either walk-ons or a less then 15 min. wait. Dragster was a less then 5 min. wait, had four rides on it in a row while the regular line was 1 hour. No problem with the value proposition as far as I'm concerned.

If there is a length of wait problem with Fast Lane, the solution is not to keep increasing prices but to limit the number sold to a lower number. But, I don't think there is any problem as the longer lines for Maverick and Steel Vengeance were probably caused by a great many Fast Lane users flocking to those rides instead of spreading themselves around the park. Not much you can do about that, they post the wait time, just come back later in the day when the line is shorter.

We mentioned this same Sunday earlier in this thread. I was there as well and used Fast Lane. Millennium Force had a 35 minute FL wait and a 1 hr stand-by. Valravn was similar. I'll admit though, that on the way out our FL wait for Valravn was only 5 minutes vs. 45 stand-by. In my experience with other parks and opinion though, you shouldn't have to "ride at the right time" when purchasing a front of the line product. A big part of what you are paying for is the convenience to ride what you want when you want with minimal wait times.

I agree with your opinion about limiting the amount sold, in my opinion that's a better solution (which I would prefer) than raising prices. The only problem with that is the park has a certain $ amount they want to make per day on Fast Lane. Based on how many they do sell, it's a pretty high number. Therefore, the only solution to satisfy their revenue targets and reduce the waits is to raise the price (or price dynamically - in real time).

I can't say I had a bad time that Sunday, it was beautiful day to be at the park. And I used my renewal freebie so it was definitely "worth it." All I'm saying is, had I paid $85 I wouldn't have felt it was worth it (especially for 5 of us). Paying $65 on Friday nights though? Well worth every penny.

GoBucks89 said:

You keep stating absolutes which are really just your opinion. That people are paying for FL passes that require waits longer than your preferred percentages of the standby line indicate that other people disagree with your view. Its a little like the notion that no one goes there any more because its too crowded.

Info that would be good to have (and that the park has at least to some degree): how many days are there any FL rides with waits that exceed 50% (or other lower percentages) of the standby line? For how many rides is that the case on any of those given days? And for how long during those given days for those given rides? Is it open to close or only for limited periods during the day? And how many people who buy on days with longer FL waits buy again on future visits?

For non-FL users, how much of an impact is there with FL for the total day? Focus in this thread has really been on one ride. But as others have noted, there are a lot of other rides and experiences in the park for which FL will have little/no impact. Overall guest experience is thus not impacted any much as many people are stating here.

I can't argue that it's my opinion but it's opinion based on what I've experienced at every other amusement park I've been, having purchased their front line product. And I've been to quite a few and in many different crowd level situations (including other Cedar Fair parks). Cedar Point is the only outlier. So I guess my opinion just reflects what I consider to be an industry norm. Perhaps a majority of the people that go to CP don't go to other parks and therefore don't know any better. I don't know.

The park has the data necessary to answer all those questions and then some. Like you said, they keep selling it as is so they probably won't change anything. While the focus in this thread may have been on one ride, mine has not. I've mentioned at least 4 rides where I've consistently noticed a problem, and 3 of them encompass 60% of the extra rides awarded with the "plus" upgrade.

Again though, you're right, it is my opinion. They're making money so it's unlikely they see a problem.

Pete said:

...the solution is not to keep increasing prices but to limit the number sold to a lower number.

I'm not sure how this makes sense, fiscally-speaking. Doesn't this leave money on the table? Maybe a guest arriving after FL has sold out would have been willing to pay more than someone who showed up earlier.

Scott Cameron said:

...you shouldn't have to "ride at the right time" when purchasing a front of the line product.

FL/FLP are not "front of the line" products, nor are they advertised as such. They are passes that allow guests to bypass the regular line, and the advertising tag line is "Wait Less. Ride More!" Not "no wait," but "wait less."

Also, FYI, it's bad form to quote entire post(s) above/near yours. See number 8 here.

Thanks for the heads up. I have read that sticky before and only did what I did for 3 reasons:

1. My responses did address both of their entire comments.

2. They were both directly above mine and I had different, specific comments related to each.

3. I feel like I remember Jeff mentioning some time ago after the most recent site/server upgrade that this didn't really matter anymore.

I'll be more careful in the future.

Back on topic, I used "front of the line" product as my own description. I wasn't claiming (nor did I say) that CP advertises it that way. None of the other parks/competitors I was referencing advertise it that way either.

I still pay for disk space and bandwidth by the byte, and it doesn't make sense to make people scroll over a wall of text they don't need to read.

My apologies.

Six Flags Flash Passes require a wait that is a percentage of the standby line. If you want to ride when the standby line is three times as long as it is at a different time of the day, you will wait 3 times longer. So the idea that Cedar Point in unique in "ride at the right time" mattering in terms of skip the line passes isn't accurate.

A lot of people on this site go to Cedar Point multiple times a year (10+ visits isn't uncommon). And many people here also go to multiple amusement parks (either a year or over a few year period). Many people who go to Cedar Point do neither. Cedar Point is a once or twice a year trip (and a lot of people do not go every year). And trips to other parks are very rare. So they likely don't know the skip the line approaches of other parks. And when you are at Cedar Point (or any other park for that matter) that other parks may have different policies doesn't really matter much. If I am taking my annual trip to Cedar Point and its crowded (I have schedule limits that put me there on crowded days) and there is an option to wait 50% less (for 4 rides or more and even less for other FL rides) and I think its worth it to me and my family to pay for that option, that I could ride after waiting 15 seconds at another park really doesn't matter to me.

I also think it makes more sense to limit the number of FL passes sold by increasing the price on certain days (they do that now but could nuance it even further -- and as they move forward they may well do that) rather than keeping the price the same but limiting the number sold. CP website indicates that there are a limited quantity now though I suspect they do not sell of out of them often.

Comparing Six Flags flash passes they way you did isn't a true comparison without picking the tier. Agreed, it's based on posted wait times. But the platinum version reduces the time to 10% of the posted stand-by wait. A three hour stand-by wait becomes 18 minutes. More than acceptable. Of the 3 versions, the platinum is the one priced closest to what CP charges for Fast Lane. Therefore, I'd say you further backed up my assertion that Fast Lane waits should only be 15% of standby (or the generous 20% I gave them for SV).

I'm at 20+ per year visitor to CP so I guess I have the luxury of being picky. If I only went once per season, I'd buy Fast Lane despite my concerns and overall would've been glad I did. I can admit that, but only because I was able to ride everything. That still wouldn't stop me from thinking it was under-valued compared to paying similar amounts and waiting much less at other parks.

My main point throughout this thread though has been what your 3rd paragraph says. I'm glad we've reached common ground there.

As someone mentioned, Fast Lane is neither a front of line product or a skip the line product. CP does have a front of line product in a VIP Tour that is considerably more expensive than Fast Lane.

I never indicated it was. As I mentioned before, I used the term "front line" loosely to describe Fast Lane, Quick Queue, Fastpass+, Express Pass, Flash Pass, etc. Similar products across multiple brands at similar price-points, with the exception of Fastpass+ which is included with park admission but more limited.

Ahh, just saying Fastpass+ has me exited about my Food & Wine trip only 3 days away! Sorry off topic.

^Six Flags Great Adventure, which does have awesome dispatch times on their rides which can have it, is doing a wine sampling thing the first weekend in November. I'll be there, but don't drink. I'll just be marathoning El Toro that night.

As far as Fast Lane goes, if only Cedar Fair invested in their Fast Lane system the same way Six Flags has, I probably wouldn't be so irritated by Cedar Fair. I RARELY notice Flash Pass being used at Six Flags because they seem to hide it rather than rub our noses in the fact that we aren't using it. When I was at Great Adventure on a Halloween Saturday, a month ago, and with a crowd that had the entire main parking lot full, the only place I actually was impacted by it, from what I could tell, was in the El Toro line, but it sure wasn't ANYTHING like I see with TTD, SV, Banshee or Diamondback. At KI, it's not uncommon for me to see them clear an entire stairway of FL users at one time. That is NOT something I have seen at any other park, ever. It's as though there is no set guideline as to how many people these ride ops are supposed to let into the station at once.

Even though I have a Platinum pass for Cedar Fair, I would rather pay the extra cash for gas and admissions to drive right by Kings Island and hit Kentucky Kingdom and Holiday World rather than wait in lines that used to be less than a half hour that are now double that with the same amount of people at Kings island. I am to the point that I would rather drive to smaller parks or Six Flags because of how Cedar Fair runs their FL systems. I was at 16 different parks this summer and none were as bad with their fast pass systems as the Cedar Fair parks were. I ONLY go to CP as much as I do because it's closest to me.

There is no reason that Cedar Fair shouldn't have record crowds, or at the very least, crowds larger than last year. Maybe more people are doing what I'm doing and hitting the other parks out there because we don't like what we're seeing going on at their parks

For someone that doesn’t drink... well, it’s a bit repetitive and rambling.... and the horse is clearly dead, Probably should stop beating it.

It’s really odd that you have so much animosity for a system that is upfront and honest, yet you’re perfectly okay with a hidden/out of sight system that could queue people up in front of you with many different tier levels.
To each their own I guess.

Zoug68 said:

Maybe more people are doing what I'm doing and hitting the other parks out there because we don't like what we're seeing going on at their parks

Then CF is doing it right.

Enthusiasts and/or the ride marathoning crowd are, as we know, not the people spending money in parks, generally speaking. So if CF is instead prioritizing attracting people who actually spend money, I don't see how that's a flaw in their strategy.