Has cedar point become less nice and wholesome

The operations and cost cutting are the issue. They're doing great with the big ticket items, but the smaller bits are declining. Each of these on their own is no big deal, but combined looks like a frustrating trend. (trying to be as objective as possible)

• night erts & night hours in general
• restaurant early closures
• food/drink stands not open for a while after park closing
• same with ride lines closing right at closing time
• special events cut back
• live E budget cuts
• meal plan exclusions
• new icee drink plan was usable this year, then not available
• food quality consistency, items taken off menu
• making the useless pass perks even worse
• would you like to purchase a souvenir cup?

While not a complaint, the souvenir cup thing does make me laugh. I'm literally redeeming my drink plan for a cup and still get asked every time like clockwork.

Nostalgia is very powerful and very selective. Also, Saturday Night Live used to be funny.

Jeff:

You make it sounds like it's walking through a maintenance corridor at an arena.

But enough about every Batman: The Ride queue

Jeff:

What does that even mean? The park has never been as well styled and designed as it is right now. You make it sounds like it's walking through a maintenance corridor at an arena.

No I think you made it sound like that. The cleanliness has worsened big time such as trash on the midways, gum stuck to the ground, fences and queues filled with cob webs more than ever before (take a look at the fence along the boardwalk by GP 🫣), the cost cutting with food portions and quality has declined, we’ve already covered maintenance and operations, the lack of staff this whole season, 2023 early entry leaves more to be desired (hopefully that changes next year). This is what I have noticed and what it feels like to me.

How does that make it "corporate?" Disney parks are owned by the biggest corporation of any parks. Are they "corporate" too?

As someone who rarely actually goes to the park but does enjoy these discussions a lot of these complaints seem so petty: I don't feel as special any more as a season pass holder, where is my Icee plan, the food stands aren't open past closing (?) anymore. The sense of entitlement is so off putting

Jeff:

How does that make it "corporate?" Disney parks are owned by the biggest corporation of any parks. Are they "corporate" too?

It seems as though my comment got deleted or maybe it didn’t post.

What I said was along the lines of: How does visible decline in quality and cost cutting to benefit the shareholders feel “corporate” while not paying a wage to attract new employees? You answer that question.

I then also answered your question regarding Disney by saying something along the lines of: I am not the person to ask if Disney feels corporate. The past few Disney CEOs have kind of taken away the magic feel of Disney.

Lastly, I mentioned that this is merely how I felt and I’m sorry if my comment offended you. I am also happy that you feel the vibe of the park has improved.

I think Cedar Point was at it's best from 2007 to 2011. But that's also when I as in my late teen-early twenties and could go as often as I wanted and could marathon on rides if I timed my trips right. Aside from terrible ride procedures/operations the charm and beauty of the park is still there but perception changes. Like Walt said, I think nostalgia is a big part of it.

TwistedWicker77:

It seems as though my comment got deleted or maybe it didn’t post.

You deleted it.

You haven't offended me, I just think "corporate" is silly, and it doesn't actually represent anything. People have been saying that for decades, whilst initiating a group hug over Knoebels or Holiday World for not being corporate. Whatever that even means. Your "quality" and "cost cutting" comments are relative to what? Are you old enough to remember the way that Dick Kinzel nickle-and-dimed everything, because "people gotta eat?"

I was disappointed with operations when I was there last year, absolutely, but it was offset by the food and beverage department's ability to relentlessly dominate. Hotel Breakers was not only inhabitable, but comfortable. There were at least a half-dozen more coasters than when I was in my 20's. If that's "corporate," I'd like some more, please.

And if you think that the Disney CEO's have taken away the "magic" of Disney, you haven't been there, or you're one of those obstinate "fans" who hate everything. Every single time I get on the Guardians coaster, or Flight of Passage, or Rise of The Resistance, or knock down chicken kebobs and sangria in Epcot Morocco, I can assure you, I feel a whole lot of magic.

I do think that people tend to see the past with rose colored glasses. But, I can see how some people may feel that the park has lost some of its character. It has definitely catered to the thrill-seekers, but that’s apparently where the money is.

My feeling is that the park has steadily replaced rides that drew fewer people (and those that didn’t age well) with more thrilling rides, but those replaced rides (and some of the green space) had given the park a better sense of balance and character. Maybe it’s the nostalgia speaking, but I think the original Western Cruise boats had more character than the newer boats. Even something like the Sky Slide added a bit of character because it was so simple and throwback. The frontier trail was a place to get away from it all and to relax in the shade, and it’s now a shadow of its former self. The space spiral was also a relaxing ride, not unlike the Giant Wheel. The original IMAX theater movies gave people an air-conditioned escape along with a pre show. The movies were eventually replaced with other relaxing indoor entertainment. The Oceana complex was another area that hosted various shows over the years. And the park had a dark ride and log flumes, which added some variety that some people seem to miss. There were also various flat rides that added more variety, such as Witches Wheel and Schwabinchen. (It seems like more have been removed than were added, but I could be wrong.) I may be cherry picking a bit, but it seems like the park has less to offer for the non thrill seeking crowd.

But, having said that, I know several people, including more senior people, who visit the park because of the large number of thrill rides. So, although those removed rides and attractions maybe gave the park a better sense of balance, I suspect that many more people passed them over than are passing over their replacements.

Regardless, I think the park is trying to find a better balance now. The Wild Mouse and the failed Forbidden Frontier are a couple examples. The boardwalk area also caters more to the non-thrill crowd. But I think it’s hard and/or expensive to find non-thrill rides and experiences that will attract a large number of people and boost attendance. People talk about wanting a dark ride, but most that I know of outside of Disney are pretty lame. (And even Disney continually evolves, as with the removal of such rides as The Great Movie Ride.)

Maybe I’m wrong, but from what I’ve read, there seems to be more parity among the bigger amusement parks now, possibly due to consolidation. So, to draw crowds from outside their more immediate area, a non-metro area park like Cedar Point probably has to find ways of distinguishing itself from the others. It has already established itself as a park that offers thrills, and I suspect it will continue to nurture that identity while providing just enough non-thrill rides and attractions to draw entire families. And, because people are people, the thrill seekers will continue to demand the next big thing in thrills, while the others will continue to demand less aggressive family-oriented rides and attractions.

hmm, perhaps my finger hit delete as I was scrolling…oh well

Jeff,

Whether you find something silly or not, it seems like you have different experiences from your 1 visit per year than I do during my multiple visits. And that’s okay. You seem very defensive and to be honest, I find that silly.

With the above mentioned, I’ll bite. The quality of food is at its peak at the beginning of the season and it gets the guests excited. The quality declines as the season progresses such as Farm House’s portions, the menu items at Grand Pavilion (those horrible butter soaked pretzel sticks 🤢), the nonsense they call custard at Stockade compared to the custard stand when it was over by Skyhawk, and the absolute poor excuse for Italian food at Hugo’s. Nothing is consistent. Cost cutting such as cutting positions at rides and food locations because the hours don’t fit into the daily budget that is preached by managers. Cutting the hourly rate from $20 to $15 for new hires which results in an overall less than grand guest experience when you can’t staff your locations like you’re a Six Flags park. The quality of cleanliness throughout the park and reliability in rides have both declined, and many of my friends and family have mentioned something about it these past two seasons compared to previous years.

We get it. You did not like the Kinzel era. You have made that very clear ever since he hurt your feelings when you met him. However, the guest experience was one of the main focuses (with the exception of the hotels. I’ll give you that) and I am grateful to have witnessed that as both a guest and an employee. Guests were not treated as just a number like a herd of cattle wrangled to get you into the park just like they did in recent years by trying to give away the gate by overcrowding the park with $99 gold passes. Employees were not overlooked by snarky management and then wonder why they can’t get people to stay a full season or return for the next season.

Regarding Disney, I said in my original post that it’s been a while since I’ve been so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. But again, I am so happy for you that choking down some kebabs makes you feel all warm, fuzzy, and magical inside. Last time I was there, it was miserable, and the hotel we stayed at (POFQ) was way overpriced as the rooms felt more like a Comfort Inn at best.

At the end of the day, we disagree about our more recent park experiences. I am happy for you that you love the current lineup of rides compared to your twenties. I on the other hand would have appreciated the park more when it was less about the shareholders (I can’t stress this enough), and more about guest experience.

Sorry for putting anyone off, but my post was meant to be petty examples of benefits that were previously included and no longer are. I'll admit the icee thing is particularly minor, and the whole thing is reflective of my personal experiences over the past 5-6 years. I'm not one of the old timers around here.

Yeah, the park is under no obligation to make guests feel special, but if they could, through little benefits like those, it might help the park feel nicer and more wholesome.

TwistedWicker77:

You seem very defensive

You need to stop projecting and trying to psychoanalyze me. You don't know what my feeling are. I just think that your opinion is absurd, and it isn't any deeper than that. It's the Internet, I came here to argue about unimportant things.

I also didn't declare the Kinzel era as something that I didn't like. I just think he was a ****ty micromanager who didn't scale with the enterprise. He built some pretty great rides, but his hubris and pursuit of the cheapest possible thing got him into trouble repeatedly.

TwistedWicker77:
Regarding Disney, I said in my original post that it’s been a while since I’ve been so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt.

But that's not what you said.

The past few Disney CEOs have kind of taken away the magic feel of Disney.

If it's "been awhile," then you haven't been there since Chapek, let alone IIger"s return. I think it takes a special kind of hater to describe the place as "miserable." But then, the same is true talking about Cedar Point as "corporate."

TomT:

I do think that people tend to see the past with rose colored glasses.

Very true. I am in a couple facebook groups that constantly have this occur. In an NFL one someone will post a picture of 1960's mud covered players on a torn up field in a crappy stadium. Comments will be like "This is Real Football". In an NBA group someone will post a picture of some old-timers throwing punches in an arena that resembles a junior high gym, and again comments are "Real Basketball.

In a Classic Rock from the late 60's-late 70's group someone will post saying this was by far the greatest music era. Well, in this case they are correct.

As the world turns.

TwistedWicker77:

However, the guest experience was one of the main focuses... Guests were not treated as just a number...

This is some remarkable revisionist history, or at best selective history. Kinzel literally said "people gotta eat" while charging people absurd prices for nearly-inedible food, and that went on for years. I mean, there were several years where eating in the park was never even a consideration for us, even if that meant venturing all the way over to 250 for something better to eat, thus taking a big chunk out of our day at the park. Knowingly charging people excessive prices for crap because they're a captive audience is in now way focusing on the "guest experience". Quite the opposite, in fact.

TomT:
There were also various flat rides that added more variety, such as Witches Wheel...

The oddly-vacant plot of land between Wild Mouse and the beach looks, to me at least, like there were plans to put something there that were later abandoned due to budget constraints. I wonder if that plot was going to see an Endeavor, which would make sense given the other Zamperla installations at CP, Carowinds, and KI.

Walt:
Nostalgia is very powerful...

Indeed. My favorite memories (that don't involve taking my kids to the park) are of riding The Pirate Ride, where we never missed an opportunity to "fire" the cannons out front, sitting down "in the forest" at Jungle Larry's, getting friction burns on Sky Slide, climbing around Kid Arthur's Court, and so on. None of those attractions would work today, and the park is better for having replaced them, even if I personally miss them, or more accurately, miss those times.

Jeff:

You need to stop projecting and trying to psychoanalyze me. You don't know what my feeling are. I just think that your opinion is absurd, and it isn't any deeper than that.

I’m only going off what you have said. Where am I projecting? Psychoanalyzing? If that’s the case, then I’m going to say you need to stop calling my opinion absurd. Or does it not work that way? You strongly disagree with me and you continue to say that my opinion is absurd. We get it. You don’t agree with me and I don’t agree with you. It’s nothing more than that, and your replies are an attempt to make it “deeper than that”. However, I laid out examples as to why I feel the way I do about the current vision of not only CP but CF.

But that's not what you said.

That’s exactly what I said at the end of my statement about Disney actually. I remember typing typing it and re reading it 😉

The thing is, I am not here to fight about Disney. You have made it clear that you are here to argue about unimportant things. That’s great that you use the internet for that. I am here to express my opinion, and quite frankly I’m not the only one that feels this way. I truly think you’re having a hard time realizing that not everybody thinks and feels the way you do.

djDaemon

This is some remarkable revisionist history, or at best selective history. Kinzel literally said "people gotta eat" while charging people absurd prices for nearly-inedible food, and that went on for years.

Seriously? How long are we going to harp on that one statement Kinzel made years ago? What do you think of the current prices during the Zimmerman era compared to the Kinzel era? I have eaten the food during both eras and I would not describe the food as nearly inedible. That is an over exaggeration. The prices have only went up. More food options? Sure! But I also don’t go to amusement parks to indulge in their food selections. I live in NE Ohio where I have amazing restaurants around me to choose from anyway.

Because that one statement sums up a greater mentality. You also can't compare 2003 prices to 2023 prices. Amusement park food prices, like stadium or arena prices are always higher. They were then and still are. But now at least there's a lot more variety than cold soggy fries and chicken fingers and terrible burgers at Coasters.

Edited to add, sure you may not not go to the park for the food, you're there to ride. But for some people that may be a highlight of their day. And it's nice to have the option to eat a nice meal inside the park and not have to use up time driving into town for a decent meal.

TwistedWicker77:

Seriously? How long are we going to harp on that one statement Kinzel made years ago?

It's not the statement itself (though as Vince points out it nicely sums up Kinzel's POV regarding guests), it's that for years they provided crappy food, with very few exceptions, at prices that were outrageous given the quality. Did that mean that every single menu item was terrible? No, but it was our experience that we were far more likely to be served a plate of crap that cost us $15+ than we were to get something reasonably enjoyable. Occasionally when we really didn't want to venture out of the park we'd roll the dice, only to be served a $15 ice cold burger with fries after standing in line for over 30 minutes. Yeah, great focus on "guest experience".

If Friday's is the place most likely to provide the best food on the entire property, you're doing it so very, very wrong.

What do you think of the current prices during the Zimmerman era compared to the Kinzel era?

I have gladly paid higher prices for food at places like Farmhouse, Frontier Festival in its various incarnations, and BBQ, and would do it again and again and again given the quality and value. It's not always excellent, but we no longer feel like we're "rolling the dice" by eating in the park. It's a night-and-day difference, and all it took was investing in the "guest experience" rather than taking advantage of a captive audience.

...I also don’t go to amusement parks to indulge in their food selections. I live in NE Ohio where I have amazing restaurants around me to choose from anyway.

Cool, but these days anyone near a metro area can find excellent restaurant options, and that does me little good when I'm spending the day at an amusement park.

I also don't go to amusement parks to eat, but I still need calories throughout the day. Providing decent food, even at high "captive audience" prices, is a light years better "guest experience" than dry burgers and soggy fries served up crappy and cold to guests waiting in 30-minute lines.

Kinzel installed some nice attractions, some of which are my favorites. But he didn't do that because he was focused on the "guest experience". He did it because that was his one and only move to goose attendance, and he kept doing it long after it was clear it was an ineffective strategy. It's no accident that the park has seen gains in revenue after turning their focus on things like the resort, the beach, and food quality. You know, the "guest experience".

No matter how many times you put guest experience in quotes, you’re still mainly focusing on the “inedible” food and the hotels when I’ve already addressed that the hotels are a large improvement.

Cleanliness is part of the guest experience, but I’ve seen you mention the state of the bathrooms many times. I mentioned the midways and disgusting fence lines. Additionally, the overflowing trash cans in many ride queues I saw on my most recent visit in August and September. Operations are part of the guest experience, but we already know how we both feel about operations…it sucks. Actually having these “improved” food options staffed and opened is part of the guest experience, but I have counted 11 locations shut down or delayed opening due to lack of staffing. But, you know, the hotel improvements and $20 entrees for 3 small dried out chicken tenders and fries at GP really make up for that. Thank goodness for the improved food that is more than likely delivered in a frozen food truck. *Phew 😮‍💨

I am not a Kinzel apologist by any means. What I can tell you is that Kinzel and Ouimet were definitely more hands on and appeared on midways. But if all you got from the Kinzel era was that he installed great rides and that’s all he knew while offering “inedible” food, then you probably weren’t paying attention to how his team was always present, treated his staff with respect, and did not try to herd everyone into the gate for the sake of revenue, then I cannot help you.