Great Coasters International

That's part of the problem. I think there are a lot of fundamentally bad things going on with Mean Streak, and that shrieking you hear as the trains fly around the course are one of the manifestations of those bad things. That's the road wheels sliding sideways against the bare steel on the track tops. If you ride in the front seat, you can see the scallop-shaped wear patterns on the rail because of the wheels sliding instead of rolling on the curves.

On most wood coasters, the designer compensates for this by pushing the track gauge out slightly so that the train can slide through the curve without binding, and to keep it from rattling back and forth, the train has to be moving fast enough that it will stay pinned to the outside rail. On Mean Streak, this can't happen on most of the curves because the train isn't moving fast enough. Some of that happens because of those high curves that were a Curt Summers signature, such as the second and third hills, and some of it happens because Cedar Point has slowed the ride down so much (such as the curve that goes 'round the lift hill).

Another piece of the puzzle is the vertical pounding which originally was caused by some structural inadequacies, which Cedar Point fixed by adding additional supports between the rail and the first ribbon board in key areas, and by adding steel cladding to many of the ledgers. It doesn't change the fact that if you have a lateral tracking problem (such as the train falling off of the outside rail on the first curve) it can start the train into a harmonic bounce that won't go away until the train stops.

The Gravitykraft trains, the Timberliners, have a chassis that is designed to steer, much like the configuration used on the B&M Speed Coaster. Each axle has four guide wheels, and a wheel carrier that can pivot (again, much like the B&M design) so that when the axle reaches a turn it gets steered through it from both sides. This keeps the road wheels running parallel to the direction of travel. That should reduce a lot of the friction and some of the wear we now see on wood coasters. That said, the train still applies vertical and side loads to the track, and it remains to be seen how those loads on the Timberliner compare with the "standard" PTC train, or what that means for the ride structure.

At the very least, I would expect the Timberliner design to cooperate better with the track design, as it would be steered by the track instead of trying to force the track to do its bidding. That should reduce damage to the equipment on both sides of the equation. The problem, of course, is that little word, "should"...nobody knows whether it "will". Well, Gravitykraft might know. But at the moment, they aren't telling. Not just yet, anyway.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

There's no doubt that Mean Streak simply isn't very interesting to begin with, and I totally get that. I brought up the GG trains because, after seeing the prototype fly around on the Raven, a ride with far more turns than MS, I'm convinced that they would add a certain vitality that the old PTC's couldn't provide. Combine that with the things that Dave has described, and GG's claim about their ability to do everything better (and reduce maintenance), then perhaps there's something to it.

And yeah... we don't know who is getting those first trains. We all assume Holiday World, but only because they've replaced trains before.

Jeff, I completely agree. I would love to see CP get the Timberliners, but unfortunately I can't remember the last time CP invested a large sum of money to "refurb" a ride... other than the DT in 3D flourescent paint extravaganza. With as much as Six Flags is shelling out to update their coasters, I wouldn't be surprised to see them look for the Timberliners when they are available (if SF hasn't filed Chapter 11 by then)

Like I said previously, I think the best we will see for Mean Squeak is some moderate track work, and a distance chance of a replacement coaster in the next 5-10 years.

I really wonder what sort of discussions have taken place with the execs about Mean Streak over the years. As an interesting note, remember that the G-trains that were on Villian went to KI, where I believe they are in storage. If CP wanted an alternative train option, they had one to try if they had wanted. Of course, there are probably more sides to the issue that I don't know.

I tend to think that if MS or DT were struck by lightning and burned to the ground that the execs would not have a real hard time getting over it.

I'm pretty sure the G-trains from Villain are the current trains on Son of Beast. I know the current trains definitely aren't the original heavy Premier trains.

The Timberliners from Gravity Group would certainly be interesting to see on Mean Streak, and I think the unique shock mechanism would alleviate some of the roughness issues, even if they don't fix some of the tracking issues.

No, I believe the last I checked, the trains running on SOB were the former Legend trains from Holiday World.

SOB opened with G-trains during the summer of '07. Villain's trains wouldn't have arrived until sometime late 2007 after GL closed. There was a brief freak out because people thought they were putting them on Racer or Beast. The park came forward and said that was not the case.

Are those Gerstlauer as well? It would definitely explain the purple color, then. All I know for sure is that they're neither Premiers or PTCs.

After watching the test runs on Raven, I really want to see a full test train make the run to see if there are any visible differences in how they run.

You're all wrong. Both trains on Son of Beast are modified Gerstlauers that originally ran on the Myrtle Beach Hurricane.

Which means that Cedar Fair still has the original Legend train and all three trains from the Villain* in storage somewhere.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

* One of which only ever ran on Raging Wolf Bobs. But it was bought for Villain.

--DCAjr

Jeff said:
No, I believe the last I checked, the trains running on SOB were the former Legend trains from Holiday World.

Don't forget, Legend only had 1 train when it opened. It was a purple G-train. That wound up on Wolf Kabobs at GL, painted black and red.

It's entirely possible that they re-used the old RWB train on SOB, but I'm fairly certain the first one came from the Hurricane at Myrtle Beach Pavilion when it was demolished in 2006.

edit: Beaten by Dave. :(

In fairness, it was a KI mechanic (who confirmed for me that basically SOB had gone down because it thought it was running three trains: the train I had ridden failed to check out of the transfer table when it moved on to the station) who reminded me on opening day of the provenance of the ride's trains. Had it not been for that conversation a few weeks ago, I'd be sitting here scratching my head and trying to remember where those trains came from...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

So do you think there's a chance we could actually see new trains (or atleast different ones) on Mean Streak ?

Duh, that's right, I forgot the train went to Geauga Lake first. Silly since I remember riding it thinking, "Wow, I've been on this same train on a different coaster."

There is always a chance that Cedar Fair may replace the trains on Mean Streak. It is extremely unlikely that the trains would be replaced because a few enthusiasts would like to see it. However, if someone, like GG could convince Cedar Fair that their trains could pay for themselves in reduced maintenance costs, then I think Cedar Fair would give it some serious consideration.