Gemini trivia... The coaster was to be the star attaction of a park in Michigan

I still love the gemini and would love it even more if they turn one train and have it go in reverse.

How would the train going in reverse make it up the first hill and back into the station? That's just silly.

MrScott

Oh, wait! I know this one! Ummm....

BACKWARDS?!?

;)

Now think about this a moment...

In 1977, Cedar Point had Blue Streak, Wildcat (I), Jumbo Jet, Cedar Creek Mine Ride, and Corkscrew. Corkscrew was generating 4+ hour waits.

If Cedar Point was building a new park, it would make sense for that new park to have a big new roller coaster. Furthermore, since the park would only have one major roller coaster, the Gemini would be a logical choice, as it is a capacity monster (capable of running 3,400-3,600 PPH. I heard Ron Toomer say it had done 4,000, but I think that's physically impossible unless it used to be a shorter ride). Also, there is an interesting design element on Gemini. As we all know, there is a transfer table between the station and the lift which is four tracks wide, so there is room to store two trains on the transfer table while running the ride. There is also a spur track on the left-hand side with space to store two more trains, which lines up with the left side of the transfer table. Notice next time you ride that there is also a spur track on the right-hand side. The ledgers are wide enough to accommodate two tracks, but there is only one track in place. This means that Gemini, as built, has enough storage space to store five trains, and it appears that it was designed to have enough storage space for six trains. But the blocking on the ride is designed for six trains, not eight.

Well, that makes sense, if Gemini was intended to be the showcase coaster at a new park. In a new park run by Cedar Point, downtime would be absolutely intolerable, and therefore they would probably have bought eight trains so as to always have six available to operate. Of course, at Cedar Point, six has always been enough, as if Gemini goes down, there are five other coasters to take up the slack. (Or did Jumbo Jet close after the 1977 season? I thought Jumbo Jet closed at the same time that the Wildcat was replaced, as the new Wildcat was installed on the Jumbo Jet's location....)

So the theory makes sense. As long as you are considering rumors of attraction history, does anyone else here remember that White Water Landing was supposed to have TWO rides, interlocking, with down-chutes facing each other? And again, it makes sense, as it would explain how Cedar Fair just happened to have a new attraction all ready to go into Dorney Park for the '92 season.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Dave-- Jumbo Jet was still operating during the 1978 season, and was replaced in 1979.

I still remember the long waits for Corkscrew.

Keep in mind seasonal attendance has been pretty consistent since the late 1970's at between 2.5 and 3 million per year. CP had 58 rides in 1978, and now has 68.

The number of potential rides per hour that can be generated park-wide has increased since 1978 due to the fact that many of the lower ride-per-hour generating flats have been replaced with the addition of 10 other coasters, and higher ride-per-hour type rides such as Thunder Canyon, Snake River Falls, and the defunct White Water Landing.

Also, keep in mind that back in the 1970's, Cedar Point also opened in mid to late May, was open daily through Labor Day, plus two weekends in September, so fewer operating dates in the late 1970's compared to now.

The bottom line, figuratively speaking, is that we're not waiting in line as long as we were in the late 1970's. Just try telling that to someone that just waited 2 hours to ride TTD or MF....

So its just a theory? I thought we were just getting thrown a fun little fact that no one knew. I mean, how would anyone ever prove/disprove something like this, other than heresay? Whatever the history, im glad Gemini landed where it did. :)

Dave

The Gemini transfer track has the capability to store 4 trains on the main or "run" track at closing. 4 trains side by side. The storage track on the left front of that was for the 5th. & 6th. trains (on paper anyway) and for train removal in the fall. The 2 spur tracks on the right front or right side of the transfer were never used. There were 2 there originally. One was removed and used for a storage track for the Mine Ride - it can be seen on the left side exiting the station (Mine Ride). The Gemini has in fact ran nearly 5,000 per hour at 1 time (50,000) one day but long time ago.

There's still something wrong about that number, Jim...but I think you might have provided the answer in that it's a daily figure.

Gemini takes 60 riders per dispatch.
To move 5,000 riders in an hour (3,600 seconds) it would have to dispatch 83 times in that hour (actually 83 * 60 = 4,980). To dispatch 83 times per hour would require a dispatch every 43.37 seconds. Let's call it 44 seconds. A 44 second interval means a total hourly capacity of (3600/44) * 60 = 4,909 PPH.

If we then work that into an operating schedule, we get something like this:

00:00 - Dispatch trains 1L and 1R
00:44 - Dispatch trains 2L and 2R
01:28 - Dispatch trains 3L and 3R
02:12 - Time to dispatch trains 1L and 1R again
02:40 - Trains 1L and 1R return to station

So unless the ride time was at least 28 seconds shorter back then than it is now, it's not physically possible for Gemini to move that many people in an hour. And that doesn't leave any time at all to load and unload the trains!

Now a 60 second interval, by comparison...

00:00 - Dispatch trains 1L and 1R
01:00 - Dispatch trains 2L and 2R
02:00 - Dispatch trains 3L and 3R
02:40 - Trains 1L and 1R return to the station
03:00 - Dispatch trains 1L and 1R
03:40 - Trains 2L and 2R return to the station
04:00 - Dispatch trains 2L and 2R
04:40 - Trains 3L and 3R return to the station
05:00 - Dispatch trains 3L and 3R

That leaves 20 seconds to reload the trains, and it's not only possible, I've watched it happen.

The way I figure it, the absolute maximum capacity for Gemini, not accounting for the blocking system, and leaving no time for loading and unloading of trains, is about 4,020 PPH with a 53.3 second interval as follows:

00:00 - Dispatch trains 1L and 1R
00:53 - Dispatch trains 2L and 2R
01:47 - Dispatch trains 3L and 3R
02:40 - Trains 1L and 1R blow through the station
03:33 - Trains 2L and 2R blow through the station
04:27 - Trains 3L and 3R blow through the station

That's assuming a ride time of 2:40. I could swear that the ride time on Gemini was traditionally 2:42 just like every other coaster in the park. :)

That said, I think the answer is not that the ride did 5,000 PPH, which I don't think is physically possible, but that the ride moved 50,000 people on a 10-hour operating day. Given Cedar Point's penchant for opening rides early and leaving them open until the last rider exits the queue, I find that very possible. Particularly given that the number is taken from the entrance turnstile count, so it doesn't account for anyone who bails out of the queue, walks through the train without riding, or plays with the turnstile.

I don't doubt that it had a 50,000 rider day. I seriously doubt that it ever moved as many as 4,000 people in a single 60-minute hour, let alone more than 4,000. Although I could see a *recorded* hour of around 4,000, since a recorded hour may be longer or shorter than 60 minutes. :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

WHEW

Good job Dave - I did not get that close or spend that much time on my figures - I'm going off old stories and discussions I was involved with years ago. We were talking in general terms then. I guess I was to pushy with my opinion - sorry.

Oh, no, not at all. I've heard similar hyperbole from no less than Ron Toomer himself (though he only quoted 4k PPH). I just figured I'd take an opportunity to demythologize it a little bit. :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.