Gemini Brake Experience

Hey everyone, I've been wondering about this ever since the day it happened. While riding Gemini on one of my trips toward the end of August, I realized that the trim brakes just before the final helix did not engage. However, when we hit the final brakes, we came to a sudden and hard stop. It was so hard that the train moved up vertically on the track. Then, when the brakes disengaged, the trains dropped back to the normal position. Can anyone explain what happened? Does this happen often and I just have never realized? Any input is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

The same thing happened to me in September. It is certainly a very sudden stop. I figure it was caused by the helix trims being off (which if on would slow the train somewhat) and the trains in the station had not left yet.

Are the helix trims even there anymore? I thought I noticed them actually gone recently. The trims up in the lower turnaround are still there of course.

The stop is rather hard, but it really shouldn't happen all that often since the interval on Gemini with just two trains one each side is LONG and it should be easy to not stack the trains unless people are screwing around. They used to run three on each side and the trains would just roll right in without stopping most of the time. Those were the days. :)

I know what your talking about, never been on it with the trim before the helix turned off, but when the train fly's into the ready breaks before the station the train pop's up, then comes back on the rails when the breaks are released.

We had the same experience. There was a noticeable pop up on that hard brake, particularly when the turnaround trim was open and we were hitting that final run with significant speed. My thighs really felt it the day after riding 89 circuits.

I've known a few people that would come and punish me by stapling me, and then pushing the button to stop the train in the stupid ready brakes outside the station it does kinda fly up in the air...stupid jerks haha!

I think it's kinda cool how much actual power the person in control's has over parking the train, if you stop the train too far back people will have to squeeze through the tiny little gap between the gates and the train, too far forward and it causes a set-up and then the train goes up the lift at like 2.

I have had a Really bad exp. on those brakes it has been like that for a long time. it jerked to a stop sooooooooo bad that it gave me some neck pain! and it was not fun! and then i figured it out the following year, the key to dealing with that is to lean forward as far as you can until it comes to a stop and then go back, it saves a lot of pain on yourself, instead of sitting back and having the momentum force you forward than backward into your seat!!!
it will save you a case of whiplash, trust me i know!
So to all Gemini riders take my advice!!! it will save you a trip to the emergency room or to your DR.

The real answer is that you should pay attention while riding Gemini. If you see a train in the station when you come out of the final helix, you need to BRACE FOR IMPACT!

Ride time on Gemini is 2:42, a little shorter when the trims are off. Back when it ran six trains, it did so without ever stopping on the brakes uptrack of the station. Interval is about 70 seconds (I haven't clocked it in years...) and at worst I've seen trains actually come rolling into the station before the train ahead is all the way out (but past the brakes).

With only four trains running, there should be no reason at all for the train to miss interval, as the ride time is long enough to hit interval with six trains. In practice, there are a lot of issues that slow things down. The gates are not nearly fast enough, for starters. The exit gates are poorly positioned and cause traffic jams as people try to exit the platform. The loose item boxes are also a disaster looking for a place to happen. And the crew spends entirely too much time tugging on seat belts and lap bars.

Yes, the crew spends too much time screwing around, but unfortunately it isn't entirely their fault. Reprogramming the gates, moving the exit gates down to the first landing, and switching to seat belts with self-aligning buckles so that you can see which end fits where. Doing visual checks of seat belts and/or lap bars would also help a lot, but unfortunately these days that's probably way too much to hope for.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I was hoping you'd have a detailed answer for me. It's much appreciated. Thank you, sir.

Yes thank you Ride Man, that must have been something to see six trains running on Gemini. So with six train's, and five cars per train that would 180 people if all the seats are filled. The POV video on youtube, I guess taken in 1989? you can see as your climbing up the lift the blue train coming around second turn. They must have been running all six do not see any on the storage tracks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao6b9WHxrGM&p=C131FFF51151175D&index=48

WOW. Never had that on Gemini......it aways just stopped sort of fast, but not like you described!

Thanks for making me feel old because I can remember 6 trains on Gemini. It wasn't that long ago that they made the change. I believe it was around the 2003 season, give or take a year or two.

The reason that you might feel a rough shake at the end of Gemini is because the brakes are manual. They are controlled by the station controllers at the front. If there is a train in the station, obviously it has to come to a complete stop and it will shake.

They operate like the reverse of your car brakes and usually with one button on the panel. You have to press them repeatedly to get the train to stop smoothly. It's kind of like non-anti lock brakes for roller coasters. You can tell if you have an inexperienced operator or if they are on the phone while stopping you if you have an empty station and you come to a screeching halt. It takes some touch, as well because they don't always open immediately after hitting the button. It takes a second if there isn't enough air, then you have to push and release until the train is at a reasonable pace.

Yeah I would see Gemini being a people eater with six running, this past Oct on a Saturday I waited in a full queue for Gemini, it was only a 30 minute wait with four trains.

Dispatch Master Transport said:
The reason that you might feel a rough shake at the end of Gemini is because the brakes are manual. They are controlled by the station controllers at the front. If there is a train in the station, obviously it has to come to a complete stop and it will shake. .

This might be a stupid question but what happens if the operator doesn't hit the controls when it is time to stop the train?

I wish Gemini went back to 6 train operation. When they gave Gemini a face-lift in 2003, they really should have leveled out the station and put the air gates at least another 2 feet back. Having the gates match up with the trains would have also helped. Gemini could also use some retractable seat belts and fixing the lap bars so they can stay up in the station instead of being free moving.

I know exactly what you are talking about. Last year this happened and everyone on the train went "Ugh!" simultaneously when it stopped. It was pretty funny.

When it happened, it reminded me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZopFkNmYIg

coolkid said:

This might be a stupid question but what happens if the operator doesn't hit the controls when it is time to stop the train?

I guess I should have specified that it's like the brake pedal of a car BUT IN REVERSE, lol! So, when you press it, it opens. If you want the train to come to a complete stop, just do nothing! It'll shake the station, but it will stop. Then you simply hold down the button until the train rolls into the station, then there are another set of brakes and the car usually has to stop within the same foot or so (depends on the coaster, the restraint controls, and the length of the station). It's really not hard once you get used to it. Rolling a car into the station is like pulling out of the driveway at home. 98 times out of 100, you're not going to have any trouble, then the other 2 (in your car) you have to slam your brakes for a kid or didn't see a car coming.

In which case (for a coaster) the people on the train would get a free ride since the car is too far along for the bar that presses the restraints open to open every seat. Happens to everyone, I never have personally operated Gemini, but I have operated the Corkscrew, Zach's Zoomer and was visually trained on Wolverine Wildcat, but never got to operate (all at MA). The difficulty of stopping the car depends on a whole bunch of factors such as length of time to prepare for the car coming back to the station, length of brakes, and time it takes for brakes to open (some open slower than others).

Lol, I guess I just became the brakes guy around here. But I was tired of hearing crazy stories of how "coasters operate".

BUT, most coasters now-a-days are all automated right into the station for safety and capacity reasons.

Actually, on Gemini, the ride has air-actuated bladder brakes. In English, that means air is pumped into the brake calipers in order to push the brakes closed. When the operator presses the release button, air is let out of the bladders and a pair of leaf springs pulls the caliper open. Normally, there is a piloted (that is, controlled by an air pressure line instead of a solenoid valve) valve, called a "quick exhaust valve", that opens to allow air to quickly exhaust out of the bladders and the brakes to open.

I haven't looked at schematics or anything, but I have noticed that the station brakes on Gemini are set to open slowly, probably because the station brakes are manually controlled. I wonder if the station brakes lack a quick exhaust valve in order to get the slightly slower action. But that's just speculation on my part. :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.