FreeWay not returning?

I'm not really disappointed that FreeWay is gone, that just means that I won't be riding TTD but maybe twice this season. FreeWay was really the only thing that got me on it just because I didn't feel the ride was worth the hour long wait it usually has. I'm just stating how I used FreeWay, not trying to start something with all you Dragster fans.

I never used it. I'm never there on busy enough days to make use of it. No loss to me. However, I hope they removed the Freeway merge points, because as it has been discussed, it's a waste of a park employee to sit there only to tell people that this isn't a ride entrance.

Campsnoopypsycho-

I never said the employees were not working to their full potential. It is not their fault in the least-I blame the new policies, specifically the seatbelt length requirements, for the lower capacity. The employees on those two coasters always seem to be working extremely hard and attempting to hit interval as much as possible. This whole seatbelt issue really needs to take a turn for the better sometime in the near future.

CampSnoopPsycho said:
Alright, in response to you, TopThrill420120, I heard that the crews on Top Thrill Dragster and Millennium Force were doing the best they have in a long time. They were actually hitting interval and that's good for a crew to do.

Don't get me started on this one. Park operations were god awful last year compared to prior CP standards - and I am not talking about 2004 because with only a few exceptions, they suffered a big drop off that year too. In general, they've been slipping for a few years. When I was on Magnum in 04, a former CP supervisor who came to ride commented to us that it was good to see us running our ride like the old school Cedar Point and wondered what the heck had happened to the rest of the place.

Millennium Force had over 1.9 million riders in 2001. In 2003, they had 1,786,085. In 2004, the year the seatbelt fiasco started, they had 1,525,402. Last year, with the rule relaxed to a half inch, it had 1,414,521. A drop from 1.9 million to 1.4 is pretty severe. And I don't think this is because of declining popularity. The ride always has a line as soon as the park opens and a line after closing. It's basically operating for at least an hour more per day than the Magnums, Raptors, Geminis, etc and still not coming close to the numbers.

Gemini - a ride that used to top the numbers list every year and pull over 2.5 million people per season has dropped to 2,002,043 in 2003, 1,729,787 in 2004, and 1,717,112 in 2005. A crew that used to run three trains per side and roll one train after another through the brakes behind the station, now manages to stack fairly often with only two trains.

The train, another capacity monster of the past (usually coming in right behind Gemini) had 2,226,579 in 2003. Then the past two years, where they have run one train until practically the fourth of July, they've been down to 1,589,150 in 2004, and 1,487,965 last year. There should be no excuse for running one train on anything but the absolute deadest of days. WHo wants to stand there for 15 or 20 minutes waiting for the thing to go all the way around with a stop in between?

Corkscrew, a ride that admittedly has declined in popularity, but still pulled decent numbers and almost never had a line has gone from 1,303,542 in 2003 to 1,281,067 in 2004 to 994,029 and a 30 minute wait on busy days last year. And don't forget to check your own seatbelt because the op isn't allowed to reach to where it is.

Magnum and Raptor, who have consistently had some of the best crews in the park seemed immune to the drop off. Until last year. Magnum's numbers dropped over 9% from 2,080,903 to 1,888,539 while Raptor fell even further, dropping from 2,089,853 to 1,838,824 (12% decline).

Oh - and Dragster? A pathetic 562,438 in '03, then 943,313 in '04. I don't know what they got last year, but I can tell you CP's website doesn't list it in the top 10 at the park, which puts it at somewhere underneath Corkscrew which had 994,029. So I guess Dragster really didn't run all that much better last season afterall. A 25 million dollar investment that thrills less people than the 30 year old Corkscrew.

Reasons for this?

Well, for one, a different attitude coming down from management. What used to be a fun place to work, where crews took pride in their work and competed against eachother in friendly competition is now a place filled with threats of writeups, termination, demotions, etc. With these things coming down from above, finger pointing has increased and the number of crews really working together as a team has gone from dozens to maybe none. Even the most up beat first year employees who have loved the park since they were little can be soured by the current environment rather quickly.

Poorly thought out operational changes in the name of safety have also caused a bit of the problem. Take the "V's" or the loose article policy on Magnum, the double checking of every seat on MaxAir, or the child proof seatbelts in Camp Snoopy.

Finally, there's budget cuts. MaxAir, the new ride last year was understaffed with only two people each checking all 50-some seats. Circular rides that used to have two people, now have one, turnstyle positions cut at Magnum and Raptor leading to chaotic platforms and empty seats on trains.

CP used to take pride in its operations. I think Dick Kinzel once said that CP's most important product is its operations. I really haven't seen that attitude coming out of that place for a few years now. Without some real steps in the right direction real fast from some people in higher places it's only going to get worse. Because the people who were first year workers the past couple years probably think that mediocrity is the norm. And now they are in leadership. The situation is only going to keep spiraling downhill until some people pull their collective heads out of their asses, admit they have a problem, and take steps to correct it.

Here's to hoping they already have and that 2006 will be a much better season! :)

Last year, early in the year, Cedar Fair looked like they might not hit their revenue or attendance goals for whatever reason--it couldn't have been the weather because temperatures were above average early in the season. Someone in higher management obviously realized this and decided that they would try and quickly fix the problem. They did this first by cutting the budget which meant cutting as many positions as possible. If it's possible to run the park with these positions in place, why would you ever have them in the first place? Well obviously they are in place to help enhance the guest's experience. By taking these positions away it can cause chaos and upset guests (which we witnessed with the cutting of Magnum's turnstyle postion last year).

Which of the following is more fiscally irresponsible...cutting the budget and devaluing the guest experience, or taking a hit in revenue and finding the source of the problem and fixing it? In my opinion, cutting the budget merely put a bandage over a mortal wound. They are lying to themselves if they consider last year as a successful year in operations as well as financially. On paper it looks fine, but the damage they are doing to their current and future employees, as well as the guests' experience, is unquantifiable.

Some of my co-workers from 2004 who returned last year commented on the increasing shift in attitude that was taking place amongst management and fellow employees. I was aware of this when I worked there, but apparently it has only gotten worse. The lack of accountability for one's own actions can destroy a crew's togetherness since certain outcomes can be construed as favoritism from management.

Essentially, some workers are picked out from the beginning as being on thin ice, and they will be booted for the smallest of infractions, yet others seem to be given 2nd and 3rd chances for whatever reason. Combine this with the decision to change operations that was seemingly made on a whim, and it starts to drag on a red tags' ability to remain content, let alone happy, with their job. This directly affects the guest's experience as well, since most of the people they interact with are red tags.

Now let's talk about the panic mode the park went into late August last year. The park was doing better financially because of the earlier budget cuts, but now they were hurting as far as numbers at the gates went. The park dropped the gate prices for certain age groups, and were practically giving it away to others. They had probably figured out that as long as they sold "x" amount of tickets then the would gain "y" amount of dollars (which would be equal to the amount of money they would get from selling less tickets at their previous price). And since what they wanted to fix at that time was the overall attendance, they didn't worry as much about per capita spending. This looked great for the park, and gave them a bunch of publicity, but they were still operating the park under their budget cuts, which caused more people to visit the park while it wasn't performing at its best.

In order for a reversion of culture to come to Cedar Point's operations, it will not only take someone within management to realize there is a problem, but they will also need to speak up. Hopefully the people around them will actually listen to what they have to say rather than act like there is no problem at all.

The unfortunate thing about all of this is that the red tags have no idea how far up the chain of command their questions and concerns make it. And if they do happen to be heard, are they actually address or pushed aside as unimportant?

Go ahead, flame away, but everything I've said is the truth and taken through insight as a very recent employee/friend of current employees. I envy the people who got to work there during the 90's, because as much fun as I had during the "lawyerization period" of the park, I can only imagine how fun it was back in the day.

Wow, Matt. Sounds like where I work. Just what I'm trying to get away from when I visit CP.

MrScott

I don't know about numbers or reasons, but I definately have seen a drop in efficiency over the past few years. At least the lines still move, but not for long if things continue on the same path.

The most interesting thing about the previous posts is the similarity in tone and content to those of us who suffered throught the six flagging of Geauga Lake.

As someone completely on the outside at Cedar Point...

Am I the only one who noticed that operations at Cedar Point went into a death spiral at about the same time that Cedar Fair took over Geauga Lake and (more important) Mr. Spehn went there to serve as GM?

Is it possible that the appointment of Mr. Wozniak as the Director of Operations might be a sign of things moving in the right direction for a change?

(I also have no idea who has been handling operations for the past year)

I know very little about either of those people. All I know is that when Spehn was the Operations boss at CP, Gemini ran six trains without stacking...and the last time I rode Mantis, Wozniak was the person who indicated to the crew person that, yes, I was good to go...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RideMan said:
Am I the only one who noticed that operations at Cedar Point went into a death spiral

No, definitely not.

*** Edited 4/10/2006 12:59:17 AM UTC by 99er***

As far as I know Dave, Bob Wozniak has been in charge of ride operations and waterpark operations for the past two seasons. When Bill Spehn left in '04, his duties were split between Bob and Candy Frankowski as I understand it. I believe Candy was in charge of revenue collection - ticket taking, tolls and such. I could be off base with that though.

Dave, I think you were the one who said this a long time ago actually. You said that one of the reasons CP's operations are so good is that they give their crews ownership of their rides. You would always hear things like, "my ride" or "my crew."

These days, there seems to be a lot less of that. It seems that the leadership on rides and even the supervisors are pretty powerless and really don't have much ability to make any type of decision on their own - mainly out of fear that they'll do something that management wouldn't agree with and get written up or fired. This shouldn't even be a problem because most of the leadership and sups have been around a few years and would probably do what makes sense. The only problem is that some of the decisions being made by management over the past few years defy logic. Some of the things they do (and I'm not even sure who is calling the shots to be honest) really make you scratch your head.

Combine this with the removal of and frowning upon any staff/guest interaction (remember the guy on Sky Ride getting written up for giving a kid a high five?) and what you have is management and then a bunch of drones. It's hard to really take pride in your work when you feel like they'd replace you with a robot if they could.

Wow, Matt. Sounds like where I work. Just what I'm trying to get away from when I visit CP.

MrScott

May 19th, 2006 weekend, I'M AT LIGHTHOUSE POINT! YAY!

Yea, you said that already.

Sorry if I get carried away sometimes, but it really bothers me what is happening at CP these days. I can't really do anything about it except watch it happen. This is my only outlet. But I know I'm not the only one noticing the declining level of service at the park. I guess I'm hoping someone important will notice our concerns and do something about them. They are following the same path as Six Flags did. The company can not continue to grow by cutting the things that has made it good in the first place.

Early indications are that they're continuing with the crap this year too. People showing up for work are not being given much if any (due to budget cuts) and people who were scheduled to process in shortly have been pushed back to a later dates. Now they're not even waiting until employees arrive to start treating them like crap.

MDOmnis, I do not think that you get carried away in the least. (well, maybe just a tad ;)). I agree with most of the things that you say. I find your posts to be informative yet disturbing at the same time. It just seems to me that the Cedar Point of the late 1990's is gone. What I would give to be a Cedar Point employee in the late 1990's... The whole attitude from that era seems to have disapeared, in my opinion. I really hope that some upper management can restore the overall employee attitude to the level that it was around 1999.

You know, Universal ditched their queue management as well, and no one seemed to care. Both Uni and CP seemed to indicate that the guest research indicated very little improvement in guest experience overall by use of the system, so why offer it?

I think the issues came from the top, and I think that's the reason Keller "retired" when he did. Geauga Lake got a lot of the management talent, and it's going to take a season or two to grow that back. Give Hlidebrandt a chance... the guy has one season at CP and I don't know that I'd even count last year since everything was more or less set when he arrived. Seasonals (and worse, former seasonals) bitching and moaning isn't helpful, or even reflective of what the general public feels.

And Keller isn't the only one. You'd find that a lot of those that "retired" did so for similar "reasons."

Jeff, I hope you are right about Mr H. turning things around.

MDOmnis said:
Poorly thought out operational changes in the name of safety have also caused a bit of the problem. Take the "V's" or the loose article policy on Magnum, the double checking of every seat on MaxAir, or the child proof seatbelts in Camp Snoopy.

CP used to take pride in its operations.

alright, first off you don't mention 2005 season. So don't go off and talk about past seasons.

Also, we are proud of our operations. I know a TON of employees who are going back and LOVED what they did.

AND you can NOT talk to me about the child proof seatbelts in Camp Snoopy. You work there for a week and get back to me on those, cause I worked with them EVERYDAY, ALL DAY, ALL SUMMER LONG!

And yes, I sent through 240 people BY MYSELF on Woodstock Express this summer. .. with those darned seatbelts.

It appears to me that for every person that FreeWay satisfied, it upset many more. Most people that enter the gates have no prior knowledge about the system. They wonder about the system that lets a number of people cut in front of them in line. The problem is that by the time they figure out that the system is in place, they can't get it. I've seen many people get upset over that. I'm sure there are many more that get upset but don't complain about it.

Keller was no doubt a big contributor. I heard something about an incident where he violated a serious company policy that he paid for with his job. I haven't been able to figure out exactly what it was.

John Hildebrandt apparently has caused some significant problems as well as making some very good changes. I guess everyone needs to break in their shoes. I've personally had such pains when trying something new. John has some pretty big shoes to fill and has a lot of potential, no doubt. While I don't agree with everything he's done, I think that he will be a much better GM than Keller was.

As the old saying goes, s*** rolls downhill. If there are problems at the top, then there will be a huge pile of it when it reaches the bottom. Replacing Keller is a good step in the right direction, but there still are managers that need to be smoked out.

Cedar Point's guests, or general public as Jeff calls them, aren’t just a problem for the employees. They are the reason that the employees are there to begin with. With no guests, none of them would have that job. The bottom line is that happy guests come back and bring friends. I was just another statistic of that over a decade ago. Upset guests do the exact opposite. I don't think I'm hanging on a limb to say that the average guest's satisfaction with the park directly effects the company’s bottom line. Seasonal employees are Cedar Point. Their mood is contagious. I find it impossible for the guests to be anything but negatively effected when the employees that they come in contact with don't look happy let alone complain.

The seasonal employees are to the most part the only employees that guests come in contact with. The exceptions are rare and are usually sourced when guests have complaints. I read once in a manual given to some seasonal employees that happy employees result in less turnover. News Flash! The seasonal turnover has been very high in recent years. Back when MF was just build and before, it was fairly common for Team Leaders to stay at one ride for several years. Halfway through last summer, there were only a few in ride's leadership that were still at the same ride. The average employees don't look happy. There are plenty that are, but they are becoming the exception rather than the rule. I personally know a TON of good employees that aren't coming back.

Hundreds of potential employees walk right out the door when they see the housing. I'm not saying that employees need luxury accommodations, but they could attract better employees if they had at least some that weren't such a hole. I think even Jeff would agree that many are not exactly model employees. Cedar Point certainly has plenty of doors that their best employees leave out of. There are too few that lead to them. How does Cedar Point go about getting more good employees and keeping them longer? They certainly aren’t going to get ahead on others refuse. Lately they have been keeping some pretty crappy employees jut because they don't have enough bodies to fill all of their positions otherwise. Giving the good employees they have extreme hours is not a good idea either.

Pay is a big issue too. Face it, $6.25 per hour is nothing but a slap in the face for anyone that can contribute much to the company. That is the same rate in 1999 when a gallon of gasoline ran you around $1.20. Everything at the store and even the employee cafe has gone up in price yet employees are getting paid the same $6.25 an hour. If you adjust for inflation, every year those who work at the park are getting paid less and less. Inflation keeps going up and Cedar Point employees keep making $6.25 an hour. Even worse is the fact that the employees are expected to drive to Cedar Point for weekends if they living within a 4 hour radius of the park. The travel expense takes a big nick out of the already low $6.25 per hour. They aren’t encouraging more employees to stay for weekends, they are keeping good employees away from the park permanently.

These seasonal employees that are looked down upon are Cedar Point. If the park finds it's way into a Six Flags point of view, then things will get worse overall, not better. They have invested tens of millions of dollars and seen negative returns as a result. If the situation with the employees doesn't improve, then they certainly will hit a limit some time or another when they can't trim the corners off of the budget to keep their investor relations positive. The sweetness of the $.04 per unit year will wear off quickly when the bitterness of less attendance sets in. Cedar Point could "give away the gate" as Six Flags did in such a case, but that certainly won't make the investors happy.

I'm not trying to imply that the end of the world is near, but Cedar Point is not headed in the right direction as of late. John Hildebrandt has big shoes to fill if he is to turn the direction around. Some of his steps have been in the wrong direction. I have a feeling that this will surface come opening day. Even if my suspicions are correct, I will still think that John has potential. Everyone makes mistakes, right?

Cedar Point still has some good employees. They simply don't have enough. If you are a good enthusiastic employee and have a few months free, you can apply for this coming summer here => https://jobs.cedarpoint.com . As far as I'm concerned, they need as many good people as they can get. Maybe the park simply needs to make a few changes. Maybe I'm wrong and this summer will be better than the previous several. Whatever happens, this pair of feet will follow some path and they certianly won't be alone. Away from places I don't like and towards places I do like as well as away from investments that leave a sour taste in my mouth and towards fruitful ones. "Do what you love and the money will follow." While a bit out of intended context, I do what I love and my money certainly follows me.

Well said.

I hope Mr. Hildebrandt can turn things around as well and from meeting him, he seems like a geniunely nice guy and he seems to care about the success of the park. He does not strike me as a budget cutting nazi or anything like that. If anything, I want to believe he sees a lot of what is wrong with CP lately and is trying to fix it.

I sometimes wonder if his hands are a bit tied though with Kinzel and Falfas there everyday to overpower whatever he tries to do. I've heard a lot about Mr. Falfas over the last year or so and very little of it is positive. I was excited to see him become the new guy when I first heard about it, knowing he had a long past with the company and had been at CP in charge of operations during some of its best years. Now I'm not so sure.

Edit: Also, CampSnoopyPsycho. I did mention 2005 in my previous post. I visited many times as a guest in 2005 what I saw was that people busting their butt like you were the exception rather than the rule. I am sure there are dozens, maybe even hundreds of great employees that continue to work hard despite the ill-advised changes being thrown at them and I commend those people. I was just trying to offer up some reasons as to why they are becoming few and far between compared to past years. I commend you for taking pride in your work and hope you can keep it up! :)
*** Edited 4/10/2006 12:04:11 PM UTC by MDOmnis***