Fast Passes

Shades said:
If someone wants to pay extra to have a cushier seat and a few drinks that has no affect (at least none that I can think of) on someone who is going from Point A to Point B in coach class.

But that's not true, Shades. If the airlines wouldn't prioritize those willing to pay more, they could spread out that extra first class space to those in coach. Cheap airline seats have never, to my knowledge, been as small as they are now. All that space has gone to those willing to pay for it in first class.

Again, I feel like this is more of a matter of getting used to something new and different, whereas for most of us the other examples (prioritized seating for concerts/games/flights) have existed for our entire lives. People are generally averse to change, and think the aversion to paid FOL access reflects that, especially when it comes to enthusiasts who are used to having a monopoly as far as ride quantity maximization is concerned.

The concert analogy can be repeated 50 times and still be a terrible one in comparison to the Fast Pass system at an amusement park, just saying. IMO, it's unnecessary but, hey if it works, by all means Cedar Point has to do what they have to do. I'm sure Matt Ouimet knows how to install the system at Cedar Point and make it work efficiently.

And you can repeat that the analogy is a poor one, but you're not explaining why it's a poor analogy. Care to explain in detail why it's such a poor analogy?

I guess it depends on your perspective. I do not fly because the seats are comfy. I fly to get from A to B. So as long as I fit in the seat then I do not see how someone paying $1000 for a seat impacts me who paid $200 for my seat. But if I don't get to ride a coaster as many times as I would have because someone paid extra to repeatedly cut in front of me then I see that as impacting me.

So what stops you from paying extra?

And I ask that in a non-sarcastic tone. If it's on moral grounds, then certainly, do not buy it. What was the cost at KI? $15? That's it?

I'm not sure how others see it, but to me CP is cheap in terms of gate-price. I think even the platinum passes are cheap compared to the value...hence, the food prices really don't bother me (quality and service are two other items)...because to get you in the door is a steal...even if you walk up and buy a ticket that day.

So from my perspective, you're already getting a steal to get in (and let's be honest, most people are getting an even cheaper discounted ticket)...and all they are asking is an extra 15 to have a fast pass. OK. What is that, one extra hour of babysitting?

Are the "social classes" in America separated by $15? Again, this is a personal decision, and I can see an argument against it on moral grounds (I may not agree with it, but I respect you for sticking to your beliefs, yadda yadda)...but to disagree with this from a financial perspective makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

That said, I agree that it needs to be implemented correctly. I am sure they have learned a lot from KI's experience.

We keep getting this picture painted of some poor family who has been saving up for years just to come to Cedar Point...apparently with exact change. Only to find out, there is an extra (insert dramatic music here) charge to join the secret society of super-special citizens...

BOY: Papa...can....we...ride the coasters to?

DAD: Well son...I know we have been saving pennies to get here, but ma and pa simply didn't budget in any extra money. We just have enough for the bread we bought for the ride home. I'm sorry. We;ll just have to wait an extra 6 minutes in line.

BOY: Someday Papa. Someday...I'm gonna go to college and be somebody...and take you and ma back here and we're going to get that fast pass and ride all day. Someday.

DAD: I know we will son. I know we will...

Shades said:
I guess it depends on your perspective. I do not fly because the seats are comfy. I fly to get from A to B. So as long as I fit in the seat then I do not see how someone paying $1000 for a seat impacts me who paid $200 for my seat. But if I don't get to ride a coaster as many times as I would have because someone paid extra to repeatedly cut in front of me then I see that as impacting me.

True, it all comes down to perspective. You're not a frequent, hardcore flyer, so you just want to get from one place to another when you fly. I can dig that. And you're right, with that sort of perspective, others paying more won't significantly impact your flight in a negative way.

Similarly, most visitors to amusement parks aren't hardcore coaster geeks, so they just want to be amused. They need not marathon coasters and thrill rides in order to be amused - strolling the midways, seeing some shows, eating some fried food, etc., does the trick for them.

Now let's revisit the airplane analogy...
Let's consider a hardcore, frequent flyer from the 1960's (or whatever time frame it was before first class existed), who flies twice a month or more. Before first class became a thing, this flyer had ample space to relax and attentive service from the staff. Before first class, everyone paid one price and had equal access to the plane's available space.

Then they invent first class. They take the same plane from before, shrink the space available to most of the customers, while providing more roomy and comfy seats with the extra space. First class will cost extra, of course. Our frequent flyer is negatively impacted because he now pays the same fare as before, but gets a reduction in service in terms of both his provided space and the service of the staff.

Essentially, you're the hardcore, frequent flyer of the amusement park world. You've become accustomed to a certain level of service (everyone pays one price and has equal access to all attractions), so that's all you really know. Suddenly, they've introduced a "first class" ticket that provides those who can afford it with the ability to ride more frequently than those with the "coach" ticket. You, like the frequent flyer, are negatively impacted by this.

But again, most people who visit amusement parks aren't enthusiasts, so they won't notice the negative impact nearly as readily as one of us would. That's why I'm not convinced that the negative impact being discussed is a significant concern. Most people probably won't notice or care, unless the system is implemented quite poorly.

Who would have thought a simple analogy like this could be scrutinized so closely?

Kevinj said:
So what stops you from paying extra?

Never said I don't pay extra:) If I am going to a new park and likely won't ever get back there again (SFMM as an example) I pay and proudly cut in front of everyone. Although I did feel a little bad when I flashed my wristband that got me the immediate reride. If I am going to a park that I know well, then I go when I don't have to worry about the park being crowded.

Shades said:
I guess it depends on your perspective. I do not fly because the seats are comfy. I fly to get from A to B. So as long as I fit in the seat then I do not see how someone paying $1000 for a seat impacts me who paid $200 for my seat. But if I don't get to ride a coaster as many times as I would have because someone paid extra to repeatedly cut in front of me then I see that as impacting me.

Exactly! But dj needs more proof in order to understand what we're trying to say...

Also, at a concert no matter where you sit, you're going to still hear the music that you went to go listen to. At an amusement park, someone is cutting in front of you to ride, while you sit there and watch. Not getting the same effect as you would at a concert no matter where you sit.

I'd pay for fast passes. Nothing wrong with adding a few extra bucks to get more out of your visit. Don't be a cheapskate.

And yes, I am one of those jerks that pays for upgrades on planes because I'd rather ride in comfort. I'm also one of those jerks that will get close to the stage at a concert and be pissed off when people try to sit in my seat with cheap tickets.

Perception is obviously important.

Fast-Pass is not cutting.

Cutting in line is a concept based in the rules of the park.

For instance, technically speaking, because Cedar Point defines one aspect of cutting as getting back to your place in line after exiting for whatever reason (to pee, etc.), that is cutting.

You and me, the customers, do not get to define cutting. Cedar Point does. If that was not cutting according to Cedar Point, it would not be cutting, no matter how much you whined.

Thus, Fast Pass holders will not be cutting.

Please, for your own sake, it may be helpful to use different language to describe the act of using a Fast Pass, because according to Cedar Point it would not be cutting...it really doesn't matter what you or I "think"; the simple truth is that a customer simply does not have the privilege of defining that concept.

The power of nomenclature resides with authority? If you want to get into semantics, park spokesman Robin Innes himself likened fast pass programs to cutting, in an interview not that many years ago (when asked why Cedar Point hadn't adopted such a program).

So, perhaps usage of the term isn't so 'cut' and dried... ;)

Kevinj said:
Perception is obviously important.

Fast-Pass is not cutting.

And paying $12 for a 6 inch sub is not getting ripped off since the park says they are not ripping you off;)

It's not ripping you off if the customer is willing to pay it.

:)

I actually don't "like" the idea of fast pass, but I get it from a business sense. My perspective is that, to be honest, I do not think CP really needs it, except for on the busiest days, and even then for only a small handful (less, actually) of rides.

Ensign, you should start a scrapbook of puns. :)

I am against the system on moral grounds. It seriously affected my enjoyment at sea world Orlando and doubt I will go back anytime soon. As for the financial argument it also presents a problem if it is priced too cheap. If too many people but it then the fast pass lines become long and it puts extra pressure on the park to keep that line moving because " I paid for this blah blah" and at the same time halting the normal line. As a consequence of this many more buy the fast pass further exacerbating the problem. My simple contention is that the system isn't broke so why fix it. In addition many of these people are so busy reriding that they probably spend less overall on the midway thus negating the original assumption (people spend more when mot hindered by lines) for which the system is designed.

You keep mentioning the various "problems" with the system. What evidence do you have that indicates these "problems" are real? So far as I can tell, you're simply saying paid FOL access is a problem because you no likey. That's not very objective.

Simple math will tell us that the less available seats on a ride due to a new queue being formed will lead to longer wait times. Thats the essential problem and I dont think simple addition needs any type of evidence to support but if you insist 2+2=4 > 2+0=2. Hope that helps you out.

Having paid FOL access does not reduce the number of seats on a ride. Ride capacity is independent of queue type.

All you're pointing out is that those who don't pay for FOL access will have to continue using the "standby" queue. You've not explained how this would inevitably lead to some sort of problem for the park.

bholcomb said:
I'd pay for fast passes. Nothing wrong with adding a few extra bucks to get more out of your visit. Don't be a cheapskate.

And yes, I am one of those jerks that pays for upgrades on planes because I'd rather ride in comfort. I'm also one of those jerks that will get close to the stage at a concert and be pissed off when people try to sit in my seat with cheap tickets.

It has nothing to do with being a cheapskate. It has to do with the average middle class working family of 4:
-Driving to Cedar Point (tank of gas = $50)
-Parking next year (rumored $15, but we'll still say = $12)
-Admission (CP has packages for families of 4 or so we'll say $40 a person... = $40 x 4)
-Food (sit down restaurant bill = $45)

50 + 12 + 160 + 45 = $267 for a family trip to an amusement park, not including other fees that may be spent at the park, is still pretty expensive IMO. That's enough loss of money right there to make me go on a daily budget until my next paycheck.

Therefore, saying that people shouldn't complain when they see FOL access riding before you because you're a cheapskate, isn't very rational. If you have the money for all of the extra activities and so called FOL access, good for you, why not take advantage FastPass on a busy day. But don't look down on the middle class family who doesn't have enough money for all of it, and are trying to make the best of their day. That is all!

That's really not very expensive when you consider you're getting an entire day's worth of entertainment.

Let's assume your hypothetical family spends 12 hours at the park. That works out to $5.56/person/hour.

Let's take a look at a trip to the movie theater...
tickets each = $10
food each = $8
gas = $1
TOTAL = $73

A longer movie will run about 2 hours, bringing the cost to $9.13/person/hour. That's nearly double the hourly cost to go to CP.

Or how about a baseball game?
tickets each = $35
parking = $15
food each = $15
gas = $2
TOTAL = $217

A baseball game lasts, what, 4 hours? Let's go ahead and call it 5 just to be generous. That works out to $10.85/person/hour. Again, nearly double what it costs to go to CP.