Farewell, Wildcat.

Yup, its already been mentioned. But I do find it odd that the 2012 map was left unchanged, with no mention of Luminosity at all.

! said:
Is this whole "2 new coasters for 2013" thing legitimate, or is this just something Screamscape just made up?

It's kinda funny that you would use "legitimate" and "Screamscape" in the same sentence.

Ffej said:
How do you figure that removing the stadium would eliminate a family attraction? A daytime show could continue right there on the Luminosity stage.

Sure, but All Wheels Extreme probably wouldn't be able to coexist with Luminosity, as the former requires a significant amount of props that simply can't be moved quickly and on a daily basis.

The aquatic stadium looks dated and getting rid of it would open up the beach view.

And then they'd install a giant stage backdrop that would block the view again.

Alternatively...
WildCat looked dated and getting rid of it opened up the area for future attractions.

See? It's all about perspective. :)

It was meant to be a dolphin show & aquarium in the 80's, not a bike show in 2012.

What does this have to do with anything? The building was no longer useful in its previous state, so they re-purposed it. And from what I gather, All Wheels Extreme is a popular, fun show.

DJ:

A. Quit thinking in terms of All-Wheels Extreme. While a good show, it's due for replacement soon. Luminosity stage could be re-purposed as an all-new show.

B. Luminosity is a much more low-profile, modern stage than a giant brown, concrete tank. With that argument, Disaster Transport should stay on the beach too, because anything in its place is going to block the beach view, right?

C. What does that have to do with anything? What better way to modernize an area of the park that feels stuck in the 80s than put your brand new $6 million show there, especially when you're talking about pushing the beach. Oceana midway needs to be renamed, and the ocean stadium needs to leave. The dolphins have left, the aquariums are gone, Ocean Motion has passed. Let it go.

I would have been much more thrilled with Luminosity had it been there, especially with the WindSeeker and Giant Wheel lighting packages.

They don't call it Oceana Midway anymore.

Ffej said:
While a good show, it's due for replacement soon.

Huh, why?

That show still packs people in (apparently we can't say the same for Wildcat) and they update the show every season with new elements so it is technically new every summer.

I believe this is the 5th year of All Wheels Extreme; shows are replaced to keep live entertainment fresh.

And do you go to CP on Saturday by chance? I've seen All Wheels twice, and both times there was at most 20% utilization of the capacity.

Ffej said:
DJ:...

A. That still means the park ends up with one fewer show.

Also, weren't you just saying that there's not enough room on that giant midway by ID? The area near Oceana isn't any larger, and has poorer throughput capacity.

B. The Luminosity stage looks to be at least 30 feet tall. That doesn't seem significantly shorter than Oceana. Regardless, a 30 foot obstruction is a 30 foot obstruction, and would significantly obstruct the view. At least the current location of the stage blocks only the ugly transfer tracks of ID.

Your comment about DT is absurd. Coaster supports (or something similar) do not obstruct in the same way a wall or building does. Let's try and be reasonable here.

C. I agree that Oceana Midway is long, long overdue for a complete overhaul (or, at least an overhaul of the "legacy" attractions). And I agree that Luminosity would fit thematically with the new lighting packages in that area.

That said, I don't think the area could support Luminosity-sized crowds, and your comments about the new show indicate you agree.

I am in shock that reason and logic have been thrown out the window. The park said Wildcat was leaving "to expand the plaza," not because the steel was deteriorating, not because it failed inspection, not because the car flew off the track and landed in lake Eerie. It would be very hard to keep something like that under wraps.

Remember- Kinzel is gone! Matt comes with the expertise to transform Cedar Point to something the next generation will enjoy. Two years ago Matt was working across the country, working in higher education, completely and emotionally detached from the happenings at Cedar Point (which is good!) He is now able to look at things rationally and with Cedar Point's best interest in mind. I think we'd all agree Dick would have done everything to keep the Cat to save his pride in losing the elusive "coaster capital" title.

Matt looks at things realistically and says "this new plaza will be a whole lot better with this mouse trap ride, err crazy kitty ride or whatever it's called out of the way... Scrap it!"

He probably had never even been on the ride!

(then again he maybe was on the test run which launched his car off the track and into the bay...)

With the stadium gone, it'd seem like a large chunk of land opened up for the show in my mind, but maybe I'm wrong.

The DT comment was not absurd. Let's do an analogy. Disaster Transport: Aquatic Stadium as Wooden coaster on beach: Luminosity. In other words, the aquatic stadium is also a giant wall, whereas Luminosity is mostly scaffolding like see-through roller coaster supports.

By the way, get your rides on Disaster Transport this year everyone! It's clear that ride is even more at risk of leaving us after Wild Cat's sudden departure.

Ffej said:
I believe this is the 5th year of All Wheels Extreme; shows are replaced to keep live entertainment fresh.

That doesn't mean it can't remain a stunt show. The shows at Red Garter or the Palace Theatre are refreshed, but it's still singing and dancing. Same idea with refreshing the ice show.

Of course that's true, Walt. But I was saying that a new stunt show could have been a dual-purpose Luminosity stage, whereas DJ was arguing that the All-Wheels Extreme props required the Aquatic Stadium.

The chunk of land would be large, but not significantly larger than what they're working with now (and possibly smaller). And again, access to-and-from that area is somewhat more limited as compared to ID's midway.

Based on the concept art (see here and here) for Luminosity, the stage backdrop still presents an obstruction. True, it's less of an obstruction than a building or solid wall, but it's certainly more of an obstruction than, say, steel coaster supports.

I get the emotional response to WC's removal. But I honestly think that emotional response is preventing you and others from objectively processing the situation. As Tilt-a-Whirl mentions above, objectivity can be a valuable asset, especially at what may be a critical juncture for CP (transitioning from "coaster park" back into "amusement park").

Ffej said:
...DJ was arguing that the All-Wheels Extreme props required the Aquatic Stadium.

No, that's not what I meant to suggest. I was saying that a stunt show of any kind requires significant props and so on, and that wouldn't coexist well with the style of show Luminosity is supposed to be. Put simply, it would be a massive undertaking to install and remove all those ramps and stuff every single day.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
I am in shock that reason and logic have been thrown out the window. The park said Wildcat was leaving "to expand the plaza," not because the steel was deteriorating, not because it failed inspection, not because the car flew off the track and landed in lake Eerie. It would be very hard to keep something like that under wraps.

Remember- Kinzel is gone! Matt comes with the expertise to transform Cedar Point to something the next generation will enjoy. Two years ago Matt was working across the country, working in higher education, completely and emotionally detached from the happenings at Cedar Point (which is good!) He is now able to look at things rationally and with Cedar Point's best interest in mind. I think we'd all agree Dick would have done everything to keep the Cat to save his pride in losing the elusive "coaster capital" title.

Matt looks at things realistically and says "this new plaza will be a whole lot better with this mouse trap ride, err crazy kitty ride or whatever it's called out of the way... Scrap it!"

He probably had never even been on the ride!

(then again he maybe was on the test run which launched his car off the track and into the bay...)

Reason and logic have not left.

People are merely stating that if the reason they gave is the only reason for the rides departure than there was obviously some poor planning involved. That is why they are searching for another explanation because the one CP gave us, IMO, is not good enough.

I sure hope they round off the back of that square empty space...

DJ, I hope I'm still tied up in emotion and this all turns out well; I really do. I guess all we can do is wait and see at this point.

tcgolfer: Bingo.

Poor planning is exactly what it is- and it's ok! It's not the first time poor planning has interrupted things (Dragster, Maverick's Heartline, Shoot the Rapids' boats...)

The project was rushed from the getgo, it didnt even make it to the 2012 maps. In fact I think it probably began as a simple concept and then kept evolving into what it now is, and I for one can't wait! Celebration Plaza is one of the best upgrades the park has seen in years!

And when we see the area on Opening Day I think we will all agree that Wildcat's sacrifice was well worth it!

Leave the aquatic stadium alone. :)

If the speculation is true that Wildcat did fail an inspection, I hope CP has the brass to tell the truth about it eventually. I don't see how admitting that an older, fair ride failed inspection and would be too expensive to continue maintaining is negative PR. There is probably more to it than that, but sometimes I just don't understand decisions. I have a hard time believing they will be able to keep any "secrets" under wraps for long.

I'm sorry but poor planning is never ok. Sure mistakes happen, but it should never be because of poor planning. The problems that occurred with the three you mentioned were technical in nature and not because of poor planning.

If the project was so rushed then why rush it? If we truly want this park to be more like Disney then why don't we act like it? Disney takes YEARS of planning and design before they put a product in the parks. Why not take the time to make sure everything is accounted for before they go about this project?

I loved the idea of the celebration midway and Luminosity. But not so much anymore.

lol Chuck Wagon. See, that's just it...pretty much everything in the park has sentimental value to someone. I picture some people madly upset if even Frog Hopper was torn down. Facebook: "Frog Hopper was my daughter's first ride!!!!! How could CP do this?!!??!" It's just a shame that such a great, fun ride was lost in Wild Cat.

I just hope that everyone in charge of decisions recognize that sentimental attachment to rides, and they make their decisions carefully going forward. I like having a mix of old / unique and new at Cedar Point. Having this mix is something Kennywood seems to get so well.