Double Loading Bad Idea?

I was wondering if anyone else thinks the dual train loading is a bad idea. I just don't understand the advantages of it. First of all, it makes the line move half as fast once you get to the split. Also, it makes waiting for the front an even bigger nightmare seeing as how your line is only boarding every other train to launch. I just don't see any advantage to the system. Especially since the launch interval is plenty long already. Our train sat in the launch position for at least 2 minutes before the lights started to countdown. Seems like enough time to load another train.

------------------
aIrtIme'S oVeRrAtEd...

it's great because it takes time to load a train, so if they load both at the same time they can double the time to load the next set while the first two are lanuching. That alone makes it great. They'd never be able to lanuch 2 trains in under a minute if they didn't do that.

Load 16 at a time or 32 at a time.

Yep... that's a real mystery.

------------------
Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

Well it really doesn't matter if the launch interval will accomodate one train's worth in the same amount of time. Who cares if you can load 32 at a time if the launch interval between trains is enough to load 2 trains of 16 one at a time? Thats like saying lets load all six at once and 96 is better than 32.

I think this was a good idea. On all the other roller coasters the trains carry about 32 people with one front seat. With two 16 people trains loading with two front seats that would cut the wait in half for those seats. The time you wait to launch is a good effect because it adds extra suspense to the ride. Could you imagine if TTD Loads like Xcelerator. One train would have to unload, load, and then launch in same station. The line would be very long.

------------------
CP Coaster Guide Ride Count
TTD: 1, WT: 9, MF: 4, Mantis: 3, Raptor: 6, Mean Streak: 5, Magnum: 5

I think everyone is missing what I'm getting at. You could still have a launch position and a pre-launch position but just load at one point. This would keep the line moving faster at the end. As long as you could load a train in the time it takes to launch another, it works the same way.

------------------
aIrtIme'S oVeRrAtEd...

How can we come to any conclusion on how fast it will load until it is launching at full capacity? Let's face it. None of us have yet to experience it at it's full capabilities. I have confidence that when it's working to capacity, your wait at the ramp will seem like eternity, anyway. No matter how quick I get to the train, it's never quick enough.

------------------
If I win the lottery, I promise not to quit my job. Although, it may not take very long for me to be fired.
In the immortal words of Socrates, "I drank what?!"

Is it really that hard to figure out? The two trains move into the station at the same time, they load at the same time, and they leave at the same time. It doesn't take any more time with a second train behind the first. What is so hard to understand about that?

Yes....But unless you launch two trains at once, you're really not gaining anything. Especially since the launch interval is longer than the loading process. I suspect the whole "double loading" idea is a product of the idealistic 45 second interval which we have yet to see. If trains were launching at that interval, it would make sense. But they're not. Not even that close really...so it doesnt.

------------------
aIrtIme'S oVeRrAtEd...
*** This post was edited by RockDown2G 6/29/2003 10:54:45 PM ***

RockDown2G is right - there is currently no advantage to loading 2 trains instead of 1, since the launch interval remains longer than the time required to load one (or two) trains.

To date, I have only once seen TTD hit anything like its theoretical launch interval for more than 2 consecutive launch pairs. I have to say that if the day ever arrives when we really do see trains fired off every 30-odd seconds, the advantages of loading 2 trains instead of 1 will become obvious.

You'll still have to wait a long time for the front row though :)

------------------
Steve

'03 : TTD : 4 MF : 34 Raptor : 30 WT : 19 Other : 39

The advantage I see to six small trains instead of three large ones is less weight for the launch. Imagine twice as much stress being put on the cable.

However, we'll only see advantages in capacity if the ride starts operating the way it was intended to.

---

RockDown2G said:
I think everyone is missing what I'm getting at. You could still have a launch position and a pre-launch position but just load at one point. This would keep the line moving faster at the end. As long as you could load a train in the time it takes to launch another, it works the same way.

---

No no no. It doesn't matter if they load one or twelve trains at the same time, the line will not move any faster. You can only launch one train every "x" seconds. The capacity of the ride doesn't change.

It is advantageous to have two trains loaded at a time because it assures there's always another train queued for launch. I've seen them do it 50 seconds apart. You can't move a train in, load it and move it out in 50 seconds.

Remarkable as it may seem, people who design and run $25 million rides might actually know what they're doing.

------------------
Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - Sillynonsense.com
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

---

Jeff said:

---

No no no. It doesn't matter if they load one or twelve trains at the same time, the line will not move any faster. You can only launch one train every "x" seconds. The capacity of the ride doesn't change.

It is advantageous to have two trains loaded at a time because it assures there's always another train queued for launch. I've seen them do it 50 seconds apart. You can't move a train in, load it and move it out in 50 seconds.

---

Oh but it does make the line move faster if you're only loading one train. If you load 1 train, the line does not split and the line moves for every train that is launched. If you load two, like they do now, the line only moves for every other train launched. Its the same idea of waiting in line at the bank or the grocery store. People are moved through faster when they make one line and the next person in line goes to the next available teller. In the case of TTD, if it loaded all six trains, the line would split into six lines, and the line would move once for every six launches.

Granted that if the ride is getting close to 45 second or so launch interval, then its an advantage. But if it continues launching at 2 minute or more intervals like it was (and from word-of-mouth has been), then dual loading isn't doing anything.

Also, as a side note, there really is no need for the condescending comment at the end. The idea of a forum is to discuss and share ideas. Believe it or not but there was a day when even you did not know everything.

------------------
aIrtIme'S oVeRrAtEd...

---

*Smacks forehead* The ride, as it was, was intended to load 2 trains at one time, being that launch intervals were going to be 45 seconds apart. As they are 2 min.'s CP is not going to go back and say, "Well we're not getting our launch times like we wanted them, let's just load one half of our station."

Waste of space if they were to do that. As present the line would move the same as it does with them loading one train at a time.

------------------
Wanna Get High? Ride Top Thrill Dragster!
RIP Top Thrill Dragster Themeing, who lies here in pieces on June 26, 2003.

Ok,

I get it now. The line does not move "faster" or "slower," but rather more or less frequently. Its true that in the 6 train loading scenario, it only moves once for every 6 trains launches. However, the lines are also 1/6th of the length of the line where only 1 train is loaded. So, the waits are equal but one just moves more often than the other.

The idea is that you cannot reliably load a train in 0:30, but you can do it in 1:00. Double loading gives you a 1:00 station dwell time while still allowing a 0:30 dispatch interval. Here, let's chart it out...

0:00  Train 1 to launch
0:00  Train 2 to staging
0:00  Train 3 to load 1
0:00  Train 4 to load 2
0:15  Train 1 launches
0:15  Train 3 load begins
0:15  Train 4 load begins
0:30  Train 2 to launch
0:45  Train 2 launches
1:00  Train 3 to launch <-0:45 after load began
1:00  Train 4 to staging<-0:45 after load began
1:00  Train 5 to load 1
1:00  Train 6 to load 2
1:15  Train 3 launches <- 0:30 after #2 launches
1:15  Train 5 load begins
1:15  Train 6 load begins
1:30  Train 4 moves to launch
1:45  Train 4 launches <-0:30 after #3 launches
2:00  Train 5 to launch <-0:45 after load began
2:00  Train 6 to staging <-0:45 after load began
2:00  Train 1 to load 1
2:00  Train 2 to load 2
2:15  Train 5 launches <-0:30 after #4 launches
2:15  Train 1 load begins
2:15  Train 2 load begins
2:30  Train 6 to launch
2:45  Train 6 launches <-0:30 after #5 launches

You get the idea. With the dual loading, there is twice as much time available for getting people strapped into the train as the dispatch interval would allow. In fact, it's really the only way to get a 0:30 interval when it takes about 0:40 at minimum to load and check the train!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I see what you're saying. I can tell you that trains were not in the launch position for 0:15 when I was there but rather 1-2 minutes most of the time.

------------------
aIrtIme'S oVeRrAtEd...

From what I saw of Dragster around May 19 of this year, I can tell you that it wasn't the ride ops that were causing delays.

If you load one train at a time, it would still take almost as much time as loading two at the same time, which would cause major stacking in the brakes.

The point is, the dual loading station does indeed make the line move faster than a single station.

------------------
Ryan McCanimal
Webmaster of Thrillgallery.com
"eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

Right. And my 0:15 is a rough estimate anyway, best I could do at 1:30am. But that's the way the thing is *supposed* to work. Remember, they've been having problems with the catchwagon not resetting fast enough, and more critically, with the trains not moving together through the station and thus having to wait two minutes for the train on the back brake to clear.

Remember, the ride has not yet operated as designed. The logic of the dual loading has everything to do with the way the ride is designed to work, not the way it's run so far.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

As I was saying from day one: There's a big difference between operational and complete, hence the lack of all the "little things" like a christmas tree or optimized train movements through the station.

Right now, I'd take operational :)

------------------
Scott W. Short
mailto:scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com