CP Pass as debit card?

I think Old Timer Tim was talking about this at one time, but I thought I'd bring it up since this was implemented at another place I go too.

The idea is to use your CP Season Pass as a debit card to a CP account. It could be recharged with money via a web process, or in person at an office someplace. Your pass can be used to buy all types of things at the Point, from fast food to gifts and tickets. Each POS location would have a card reader for your Season Pass.

Boston Mills/Brandywine ski areas in Cleveland have this implemented this year, and I think it's great. No more taking a wallet, all you need is the pass card. They also have debit only cards available for use if you don't have a pass.

I think this is great for everyone, and especially good if you have kids roaming the park. What do you guys think about this idea for Cedar Point?

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I'd rather be in my boat with a drink on the rocks,
than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.

I think it is a great idea, but the cost of implementation may be too high to justify doing it. I enjoy this type of system at my university, but even here, many vending machines to not accept CWRUCash (or CASEcash).

If they get a return on investment with this type of system, I think it would be in the soda and/or pop machines in ride queues (sp?). I think people would be more willing to buy from those machines if they took this form of debit or even if they took larger bills.

I also think this type of system could earn them money in the way that gift certificates do for restaraunts. They could give people a certain amount of points to use in a hotel/resort package, and unused points would be profit.
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Avalanche Run - My first Roller Coaster.
Magnum XL-200 - The BEST Roller Coaster!

New Profile Photo, now with Magnum Robert!

I decided to make a second post instead of an edit because this deserves to stand on its own:

The one problem with this type of system would be that new phone or network lines would need to be installed in areas that might not have them. If there is an ethernet network at the Point already, this would be easy. If not, the costs would be tremendous because wiring the park would not be cheap, and new phone lines to use for authentication of points would also be very expensive.

-Sam

EDIT: Typos
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Avalanche Run - My first Roller Coaster.
Magnum XL-200 - The BEST Roller Coaster!
*** This post was edited by Avalanche Sam 12/3/2003 5:06:40 PM ***

Can it really be that expensive if they already have credit card machines at most of the stores. Unless it really needs an ethernet connect and not just a phone connection. As for the pop machines, even Owen's community college has the device to swipe the card. So if a community college can have it, I'm sure it can't be that bad for some at CP. If they really want to put it in.
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Evolution its a LIE

There's an artice in the pre-IAAPA Convention issue of Amusement Bussiness about this.

Most places that have used it have found it to be more of a problem from the bussiness end. The larger the system the more problems they have encountered, and many of the comapnies killed the systems.

CP being as large as it is merch and food wise would be a nightmare.

Wait a year or two for the bugs to be worked out.

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June 11th, 2001 - Gemini 100
VertiGo Rides - 82
*** This post was edited by Red Garter Rob 12/3/2003 5:53:36 PM ***

It can work... just look at Universal Orlando. I talked to a guy there (we stayed at Royal Pacific Resort on-property) while at IAAPA, and he said they had a few problems last year but got it all straight last winter.

For those of you who don't know, your room key acts also as a charge card and pass for their queue management (Universal Express) so you can skip lines. We used the cards all over Islands of Adventure, Universal Studios and CityWalk. It worked flawlessly and every single time. I even used it once at a quick-service stand. So instead of carting around and spending $200 in cash for the three nights we were there, it was all charged to my room. If I had to use paper money, I might not have spent that much.

They'd be fools not to take a good, hard look at it, while accepting that it might not offer ROI in the first year. Imagine the kids roaming the park or soak city with even a $50 daily limit...

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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - My Blog
Blogs, photo albums - CampusFish
What time does the water show start?

This has been done at WDW for years using your room key. It's not unimplementable (is that a word?).

From what I hear, though, the computer network on-point isn't really up to par as it is. There would have to be some massive physical upgrades to handle all the traffic. This isn't something that you'd want to run on the same network that you run your office computers on because it'd clog everything up.

This would have to be a newtork built from the ground up. Possible, but expensive.

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- John
I Snap Flyers

I think the aspect that would make it the most profitable is the one that Jeff just touched on in his post. When people aren't actually paying for everything with cash out of their pockets, they tend to spend more. It has been a proven statistic ever since the credit card became popular. When you don't directly see your money go, you are much more frivolous with it as it does not seem as if you are spending so much.

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2003 Season Visits: 42 Dragster: 27 Rollbacks:0

I think it’s a great idea. I have thought that doing something similar for employees would be great too. Using the employee ID as a debit card like most colleges with there school Ids do. You could use it in the café, commons, vending, etc. I know I would like to see something like this.

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Screamsters 2001
Millennium Force/Screamsters 2002
Challenge Park/Screamsters 2003
*** This post was edited by 99er 12/4/2003 12:48:21 AM ***

From what I hear, IT in general at the park is a total mess. Obviously with buildings ranging from new to a hundred years old you aren't going to find wiring up to speed.

They were rewiring my university when I graduated ('95) in anticipation of ridiculous Internet use, and it wasn't that big of a deal (with a similar range of building ages, plus hundreds and hundreds of dorm rooms and classrooms). As I recall, that was something like a million dollar job. The park would presumably run fibre to various zones (where you can put everything, including voice, video and data) then break it out and drop in each building. In the long run they'd have fewer wires.

Still... There would have to be a major culture change at the park. I personally still wish for signs around the park indicating wait times at other rides (again, like Universal).

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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - My Blog
Blogs, photo albums - CampusFish
What time does the water show start?

We are re-wiring the college of engineering at Michigan. The labor costs for this kind of a job are very very high. That may be due to the ridiculous labor costs at the University generally, but even so. It seems simple to string a bunch of wire through a conduit, but I don't think it is.

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It's not war, famine, or pestilence; it's only downtime.

Plus there is an insane amount of concrete that would need to be ripped up and re-poured to pull this off. That isn't cheap.

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June 11th, 2001 - Gemini 100
VertiGo Rides - 82

Jeff, you are right. It isn't about anything other than a culture change. Wants the people in charge are people who can appreciate technology then a priority will be put on this.

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"You can dream, create, design and build the most wonderful place in the world...but it requires people to make the dreams a reality."

I wonder if they could put some WiFi access points around the park, and have most of the networking for POS terminals going through those? Also, they do have underground telephone going to all the buildings in the park, so possibly they could pull some Ethernet wires through the same conduits and save some money.

I guess the state of IT in the park goes along with the mom and pop culture that Dick Kinzel likes. Whatever works I guess.

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I'd rather be in my boat with a drink on the rocks,
than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.

Pete,

Unfortunately, WiFi is probably not secure enough for the type of transactions that would be processed. I would love WiFi at the park, as I usually have my laptop in the car when I go, so as to organize my coaster count right away. Being able to check my email at the park would be cool.

-Sam
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Avalanche Run - My first Roller Coaster.
Magnum XL-200 - The BEST Roller Coaster!

New Profile Photo, now with Magnum Robert!

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Scott Cameron said:
When people aren't actually paying for everything with cash out of their pockets, they tend to spend more. It has been a proven statistic ever since the credit card became popular. When you don't directly see your money go, you are much more frivolous with it as it does not seem as if you are spending so much.

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That is the same reason casinos use chips instead of bills and coins. A person will plop down twenty dollars in colorful pieces of clay or plastic quickly. Will they be so quick with a twenty dollar bill? No. It all plays with the senses.
A debit card system also cuts down on the amount of currency scattered throughout the park. Less bills and coins in the cash registers leads to less chance for theft from both customers and employees.

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Be Afraid
http://www.happytreefriends.com

There is a reason many people have credit card problems- It is easier to hand over the plastic than the paper.

You can keep an accurate count of the amount of money if it is in your pocket, but with a card, it is easier to toss the recipt in a garbage can. Disney has the same system, as does most cruise lines, and it is a great system. Your season pass/ hotel key acts as your money, and in Disney's case it is also used for FastPass. Cedar Fair would spend a truckload of cash up front, but it would pay itself off VERY quickly. Look at it this way, CP will spend $25 million for a ride that has the intention of bringing more people to the park to spend more money, this system will do the same thing.

When I was at Disney, my wife and I had beers, sodas etc., and I cannot remember how much they cost- because I used the card.

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Beer and golf Thursday thru Monday, Cedar Point & beer, Tuesday and Wednesday.

I had quite a few guests come up to me this summer and ask me if our hotel keys were able to be used to rent stuff at the beach, buy stuff in the park, etc. They were shocked when I said no. I had many people suggest that we implement a system like that. I really do think that it would be a good idea. Maybe when Kinzel retires, who ever takes his spot will install a system like this? It would be awesome to have. I also agree with Jeff, it would be great to have signs around the park telling us how long the waits were for certain rides. :)

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Hotel Breakers Desk staff - 2002
Hotel Breakers FOM - 2003
I wish I could come back for another season...:(
Finally a shoeless Raptor rider! :)

The biggest WiFi problem is that, unless you really over-engineer, you will have outages from time to time, and in ways that are hard to predict. For example, it can be difficult to punch a signal through rain. That's okay if you are doing something like a ride wait-time board, since delaying an update a few minutes doesn't cost much. It's much more problematic for a POS application, since you'd prefer not to tell your customer to wait until the radio reconnects.

The security issue is easy enough to deal with. In fact, most wired security protocols are designed assuming that the Bad Guy has complete access to every packet on the wire, can modify them arbitrarily, and can inject packets from putatively legitimate sources. Wireless media only make those actions easier, but the protocols are designed with them in mind anyway.

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It's not war, famine, or pestilence; it's only downtime.
*** This post was edited by Brian Noble 12/4/2003 3:49:00 PM ***

Jeff- Currently Ashland's network isn't exactly up to par. It has a tendancy to go down and cut off entire residence halls from the rest of the network for hours or even days at a time. I've been subject to several angry rants about this from AU students.

As for CP- Making the network for the POS stuff at CP wireless might be their best option. Cost wise, it might actually be cheaper what with all the excavation that would need to be done to run new lines. Plus, with wireless it's that much easier to add new terminals.

[edit: Bad Grammar]
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- John
I Snap Flyers
*** This post was edited by Michael Darling 12/4/2003 5:45:38 PM ***