CP Network Operating Center?

Ok, so this is a really really geek question.

Obviously I am not asking for details on security or anyhting, but I am curious about the NOC that they have running .

Questions I have is, how are the rides connected and monitored, are they run on a server in a NOC or are they run by servers running localy near the ride itself, and perhaps even gives basic reporting back to a data server of some kind.

Micros? I run a micros system where I work, and obviously since the POS system there is a million times more complex, how does that work? what type of servers, etc.

is the NOC for the local offices housed in the same location as the other two networks?

What is the mix of Network OS's, Win Server, Linux , Unix, some verint.

how much of the network is Virtualized? or running mostly bearmetal? are they being converted if so, since it's the new trend?

is the website hosting in their NOC, or offside on a web server, I know they have other parks that share the same "site" looks like its North Carolina Charlotte Paramount Parks Inc. from the reverse look up of cedarpoint.com

What about guest services for the hotels, I know they are all connected via Micros also, so are they tied?

any pictures of any of the NOC or NOC's?

I'm just curious, being the IT Geek myself.

Thanks!
Eaton

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and this might be a BIG NO, for a lot of reason, Tours? I would love to see it up front, I am sure its crazy!

and is it located on the park site or off site?

Their IT headquarters is in Charlotte; the remains of the old Paramount Parks.

There's a story that goes back to before the merger of Cedar Fair and Paramount that talks about Dick Kinzel walking through a park with the then President of Paramount Parks. Kinzel discussed how he got attendance numbers from each park on his desk at the end of the week. Rumor has it the then Paramount Park President pulled out a Blackberry and said "this is how many people are in our parks right now." It wasn't long after that we saw the upgrades of the season pass, ticketing, and turnstile systems across the Cedar Fair chain when they bought out Paramount Parks.

Rides in the park run on a PLC that typically runs on a Windows box located in the ride's electrical or control room. Most of them are independent and not even linked to a network, although a couple are accessible from off site (ie: by the manufacturer)... at least as of when I worked there. But things have come a long way within the company technology-wise in just the last 2 years.

With that in mind, it's likely not that much different than the typical data center at any other company.

ahh, yea, that makes sence, but I am curious how the Micros, and the attendance systems are linked. And what platforms most of that stuff are running.

The PLC's do NOT run on a Windows box. The PLC processor is it's own computer.

I'm not sure about the attendance system, but I know the Micros POS system involved setting up a pretty significant wireless infrastructure across the park since so many places don't have wired connectivity. You'll notice most of the mobile food/merch carts will have a little box shaped antenna on it or on a pole or building right beside where they set up. These antennas will either be pointing at the water tower or the to of Breakers Tower.

I would guess for the sake of PCI Compliance that the POS stuff is on its own network separate from everything else, though that's just a guess and not a fact.

Starlight Experience used a similar wireless setup, though it was on a much smaller scale.

DBCP said:
There's a story that goes back to before the merger of Cedar Fair and Paramount that talks about Dick Kinzel walking through a park with the then President of Paramount Parks. Kinzel discussed how he got attendance numbers from each park on his desk at the end of the week. Rumor has it the then Paramount Park President pulled out a Blackberry and said "this is how many people are in our parks right now."

Not a rumor, because it was me who originally told that story, as told to me by someone "familiar with the situation," as they say.

There isn't a lot of incentive to reach a high level of connectivity between rides themselves. They keep pretty solid record of everything that goes on there, even if it doesn't all occur in an electronic way. I mean, when a ride goes down, there's a phone call, people write stuff down, it's handled. I think that will evolve over time, when "the Internet of things" is more of a reality and connectivity is ubiquitous.

Cedar Point's network infrastructure was very poor, to say the least, up until a few years ago. I would assume that the POS upgrades alone would have forced that issue to be improved. Unexpected things have forced the issue as well, like the light show on the Frontier Trail. I understand it's pretty well wired now.

But I guess if you imagine some dark room with video screens all over the place that looks like CTU, that place doesn't exist.

haha, no I'm an IT admin, we have 3 monitors to monitor the systems, we have a few hundred servers, we can do everything from our desks via remote protocols of some kinda, but the infrastructure of servers, and how the baseline, and reporting goes, takes a lot more CPU space then expected.

I'm sure they have a place of a few racks, if just for the main LAN/CAN they run in the offices themselves.

Jeff said:
dark room with video screens all over the place that looks like CTU, that place doesn't exist.

It should. That would be awesome.

Red Garter Rob said:
The PLC's do NOT run on a Windows box. The PLC processor is it's own computer.

Very true, but I have seen some ski lifts that have a Windows box as the graphical interface to the PLC. It's used for things like a graphical animation of the individual carriers entering and leaving the terminal and other operator functions that can be accessed via touch screen or mouse. Do any of the rides have a setup like that?

I work for a company specializing in HVAC control systems, giving the operator an advanced graphic display showing everything the equipment is doing in sametime. It's also available on phones to pull up these building systems in moble form. Thought these new rides being constructed would have similar capablities.

Pete, Demon Drop was set up kinda like that. When you're walking the queue, the little building to your right as you approach the station was where all the "brains" of the ride was.

And it ran on windows.

*sigh* It did NOT run on Windows. There is a Windows machine there used to access the PLC's program and sometimes to run a graphical interface to make the gathering of information easier. The ride itself, however, does NOT run on Windows.

Yes Pete several of the rides have either a touchscreen HMI (Human Machine Interface)or a windows machine running a data gathering and display program.

Next time you're in line for Dragster, look into the booth at the main control panel if the ride goes down, you'll see either the operator or maintenance worker scrolling through screens on the touch screen to look at data.

Windows is just the operating system used on the browsing pc to access the special software that runs on it.

kylepark said:
Windows is just the operating system used on the browsing pc to access the special software that runs on it.

incorrect! Trust me, I use it for a lot of things, it can be used for workstations as you stated for browsing, but it also runs pretty heavy Databases , and even now with Hyper-V it can run several operations that are heavy on once piece of hardware, SQL, Exchange, HVAC for some applications, etc.. It all depends on what the programmer decided. It is not the most Robust platform, but it is simple to program with , allows for easy building on interface devices, IE touchscreen, button controls, etc.

now, from what we do in our network is we run a lot of VMWare infrastructure to allow us to run Linux, Unix, Windows (all flavors), even on some Mac OSX (several flavors).

again, going back to Micros, our restaurants use a simple Windows XP workstation to run the SQL database that Micros uses.

I am sure that a lot of rides PLC's run off Windows, as I bet also some are built on a modified overlay of Linux/Unix.

Also Windows allows a lot of redundant features to allow several computers to act as one, for example again VSS, allows the drive to be shadowed at intervals, so if lets say the one PC (server) fails, you can ramp up the other one, and be back and running within a few min, and only lose no more than 15 min worth of data .

Windows is NOT the best platform in the world, by far, but it is one of the most simple and supported platforms out there. And I am sure that a handfull of PLC's do run on it. Heck again back to Micros, a lot of the units I know run a modded WinCE platform for the POS registers.

now do they network to a main NOC on campus or offsite , that depends on if the tech allows it.

Trust me on this. You are wrong. The PLC's themselves run on their own system. The Windows machines are only used to program and communicate with them.

While some of the newer Allen Bradley HMI's are running on a Windows CE platform. The PLC's themselves are not.

I find it hard to believe that they built their OS just for the use of a Roller Coaster. Even the Mars rover is built on an open source version of VxWorks. And I understand that the PLC's are not running Windows, but I was not arguing that at all, I was explaing that Windows is more then just a desktop OS.

And that leads to the original question, what platform is the PLC built on? I know that the coaster industry does not have that kind of R&D to build an OS from scratch, nobody does, Heck OSX for the Mac is built on a Unix platform again (60 years and it's still the bottom line for EVERYONE really)and again VxWorks for NASA.

and I think we already hashed out that they are NOT interconnected, witch is a shame because some cool instant stats could be spewed out on a moments notice if they were.

The PLC's used on the rides are not made JUST for rides. They are the same PLC's used to automate automotive factories, sugar mills, package shorting systems, food processing plants, just about anything that can be automated.

Most of the ride industry uses Allen Bradley/Rockwell PLC's and industrial control components. It IS their own software running on their own hardware.

Interconnecting the rides, there are two trains of thought. Some companies do it, and yes it makes it a lot easier to pull information together faster.

Most plants and factories are this way.

When it comes to rides, a majority of parks keep them isolated for safety reasons. No outside access means no chance of unauthorized access, modification or tampering.

It's a very different outlook on the world when you are programming something that is responsible for carrying peoples lives in their hands.

It's not a POS system or an email server. One wrong glitch in your code and you could have just destroyed a half million dollar train, or worse. Someone's life.

Rob, I know what you mean about not wanting outside access due to the risk of hackers. We run into the same thing with certain customers of ours sometimes, but it's a heck of a lot easier to troubleshoot if the equipment can be fixed remotely. Does the park have access to it at least internally, not just at the ride itself, but from a central location? Like an operator workstation pc at the maintenance or park offices where different ride systems can be pulled up simultaneously?

A lot of industrial systems, including rides, will have a remote capability. When not in use it is usually physically disconnected for security, either by unplugging an Ethernet cable or throwing a physical switch. I have seen some industrial machines in factories that are connected with passwords and such.