Could Steel Vengeance have a media event?

I don't know what the percentage of people is that go to the extent of complaining about their vacations on the internet. I know that there are places that are billed to be something they're not. I camped at CP during the preview weekend. We were led to believe that the park opened at 6 friday night. ERT for resort started at 5. We were more than happy to get our camper set up and relax until 5. It was nice not to have to leave the house at 6AM. The park provided us with what we were promised. The special event for other people was going on when we arrived. It didn't bother us though, because we wasn't invited to it. Was there all weekend. Crowds were light most of the weekend other than Valryvn. I guess when you get to enjoy the ERT during your visits on most occasions the minor stuff doesn't bother you as much.

GigaG said:

Nobody was expecting ERT. But some were angry that they came in go a crowded park, not even getting a chance to try to go for any sort of shorter line, and then having 1/2 to 1/3 of the time in the park as the OSU people who got all day... I think a lot of passholders didnt like that.

I was one of those passholders that was taken by surprise by the crowds. Once my initial shock and disappointment at not being able to ride Valravn wore off, I had a great evening. It was no big deal, and I held no ill will toward the park. So I don't think you should be so quick to project your opinion on passholders as a whole.

...seemed like CP was putting the OSU people above some of their most loyal customers.

It's generally accepted that passholders, on average, have a far lower per cap than the average guest. Sure, with the recent surge in pass purchases that may have changed a bit, but the basic idea remains the same - the family that visits once per year typically spends far more on a per cap basis than enthusiasts. So maybe you're "loyal," but that holds relatively little value compared to the annual guest.

Put another way, if you hung out at Target frequently, but almost never purchased anything, would you assume Target holds you in the same esteem as someone who comes once per week and spends $200 each visit? At that point you're more of a loiterer than a paying guest. I'm not sure how that translates to "loyalty."

The Ohio State day people were some of the most entitled I’ve ever seen when they were complaining just about everywhere for last year’s event due to rain. They paid for entry, not rides. They shouldn’t have been entitled to anything. Cedar Point broke their no rain check policy and gave them all rain checks.

^And I've never heard of that. Just people here self-flagellating and talking about how entitled their fellow enthusiasts are whenever they suggest the return of a special event.

Sounds like a lot of Michiganders in here. Did we forget about 2015 and 2016 Michigan Day? Don’t get me started on that :)

Oh, I’m an Ohio State fan, don’t worry, I hate that team up north

^I'm partial to OSU over UM but not a massive fan of OSU either. My comments about OSU Day have nothing to do with football :P.

^^^Sounds like a lot of Ohioans in here complaining too much about Michiganders for no good reason. ;)

Wisconsinite here and we are quite partial to Ohioans since we discovered CP and the other great vacation spots the state has to offer. We’ve been to the park twice during Michigan days and it’s just not the same place as usual, so we now purposefully avoid Michigan days at CP. Nothing personal it’s just different in the park then.

As a side note: I would like to retire to Ohio in summers (shuttle bus driver for CP is a personal preference of mine) and then sunny Florida for winters with no retirement job :)

Pete said:

The PR they get from media day is the cameras rolling and the media people talking about the ride on the various news outlets. They get that regardless of any type of enthusiast participation. The "PR" enthusiasts bring, which is mainly bragging among themselves about how much swag they took or how much food they ate, is pretty much worthless.

As a marketer, I completely disagree. The PR they received was great social media content. Plus throwing your biggest fans a bone is pretty nice.

No matter though. Smart enthusiasts make their own ERT if they know how to work loop holes. For instance, I cannot remember the last time I rode Raptor without scoring a second or even third ride thanks to friendly relationships with ops and the fact there is almost always a few empty seats on the four across beemers.

^About "rerides", CP rarely allows them, unfortunately, except in the last ~30min of the day if the crew is nice. Even then, you're only supposed to reride once. But if you know the crew, it is more likely that you'll get extra rerides, obviously.

That's one of the few things Six Flags does better than CF - reride policy. Rerides are almost always allowed (except at SFNE, whose reride policy is even stricter than CP's.)

I've noticed a trend recently with the talk about "Enthusiasts". Somehow a few of us have forgotten that there are ungrateful idiots in every walk of life.

I just wish we would stop firing shots and saying we don't deserve a damn thing because overall "Enthusiasts" don't add to the bottom line like "Normal" people that visit the park.

Labor Day 2017 was the first time that I ever was able to take advantage of a "Enthusiast" perk. I'll never forget riding Gatekeeper 15 times in a row and never getting off, same with Magnum the next night. Yeah I counted, so what? It was fun! And for the lovely folks that talk about how much the park makes...... Well I won't pretend that I'm the average pass holder but these perks are why I will continue to go 3 times a year and drop a bucket full of cash.

What inspired this post was a snow storm. But honestly the cynical view some of you have is just sad. Not everything has to be looked at through dollar signs or a few idiots that can be found everywhere in life.

By the way, on the subject of "entitlement" and the general attitude of some enthusiast communities (which I angrily referred to as "self-flagellation" earlier), this guy's article resonated with me a bit. Skip to the section "On the Genaeology of Online Enthusiast Morals."

http://www.rollercoasterphilosophy.com/2011/geauga-lake/

He's pretty harsh, and he has a habit of putting his enthusiast-related writings into long, philosophical essays (hence the name of the site), but it's an interesting read. Basically, he talks about how the attitude that enthusiasts can't criticize parks, etc. harms the hobby, with a particular attention to how some sites (not this one as far as I know) had so many people mocking preservation efforts for Big Dipper that it amounted to essentially sabotaging said efforts. But some of his points apply to many things besides the Big Dipper saga. Again, he takes this a bit more seriously than most of us, and perhaps goes overboard a bit, but it's an interesting perspective nonetheless.

This whole thing doesn't fully represent my views, obviously, but chunks of it really made me think and surprised me at how I've had similar thoughts before on the subject of enthusiast forums. Sorry if it's a bit controversial or harsh.

That was a fantastic read Giga. Guy has a command for the English language that I'll never possess.

Good find and a perspective that I've never read or heard about. While at the same time having many of these thoughts that I simply couldn't articulate. And I would wager can be applied to many other discussions/debates we have in life.

From my observations, nobody was mocking the idea of preserving Big Dipper. What they were mocking were THOSE ideas of preserving Big Dipper. They were clearly misguided and not very well thought out. Nor did they have the money to put any plan into action. Day late, dollar short comes to mind as an apt description.
I also won’t buy into the notion that enthusiasts directly influence multi million dollar corporations into making decisions about their business. I admit that customer feedback from all sorts is taken into consideration, but that’s usually most impactful in deciding how front line employees act or who keeps their jobs. But to think that talking up/down a park/ride/company has everything to do with their five year plan is preposterous.
To Cedar Fair the efforts of the hardcore preservationists (or their critics for that matter) had little to do with their decision to let the ride decay. That decision was in the cards long before the hubbub started, and nobody should consider themselves a saboteur or a victim of that discussion.

I’m using Big Dipper as an example, as he did, but I think in general he’s barking up a very large, wrong tree.

I think he was kind of ripping on Theme Park Review. The group to save the Big Dipper was "savethebigdipper.org." So some people from TPR made a fake website "savethebigdipper.com" that was clearly intended to mock and belittle them by showing pics of several other "Big Dippers" on a badly-designed website, and created the character of "Prince Desmond", a "Nigerian prince" who wanted money to save the Big Dipper, painting the enthusiasts as scammers. The "Prince Desmond" meme still exists on TPR, in fact, usually as a way of disagreeing with the idea that a ride should be saved. (The parody site exists, too.)

Later, when Dipper ended up being demolished, people on TPR were basically saying "Please let there be more pictures!" and cheering on the demolition, claiming that nobody cared about it and implying that the only people who wanted it saved were a bunch of old ACErs.

I think another point the "philosophy" guy is trying to make is that the attitude of enthusiasts of "we can't do anything, and we don't matter" stops such projects from organizing like they did in the 1980s, when Phoenix, etc. were restored with support from enthusiasts. If this attitude was not so entrenched, perhaps there would be a more concrete plan to save the Dipper by enthusiasts like there was for Phoenix. And also, as he says, the fact that this "morality" exists causes the amusement industry to be shut away from its fans' criticism and suggestions more than other entertainment industries.

Back to the SV Media Day debate,

There are a variety of ways to interpret the "Online Enthusiast Morals" essay, and there's no doubt that chunks of it are very harsh and can come across as being antagonistic towards parks. However, I think some parts of the essay come true whenever somebody suggests that Media Day come back or that passholder benefits should be improved or modified in a certain way. If you've ever been on TPR, the "morality" exists there for sure (look in the comments of that article for some peoples' opinions on that and why TPR may have normalized this, being that it is a massive community.) And while this forum is generally way more tolerant, parts of this essay eloquently state how I feel when somebody gets attacked for being "entitled." Certainly, some people's posts truly do reflect being spoiled and feeling entitled to everything, but at other times it just seems that it's thrown around at anybody who thinks the park should change something.

I think you have part of that right.
I’m not sure that Phoenix was an enthusiast-led project. My impression has always been that Knoebels looked for a ride to rescue and move, which was a good fit as they were not only park men, but lumber men as well. The enthusiast community surely provided interest and support, though. We spread the good news and sent national interest to a park that had previously only been a dot on the local map. And we can look at that thoughtful move as a modern accomplishment in preservation and be eternally grateful.
The notable enthusiast project was Leap the Dips, which was recognized as the world’s oldest ride, but sat in forlorn disrepair at a park with little means. While the task was big enough, it didn’t require a move or a buyer. Let’s keep in mind too, that the work and the funding for Altoona’s gem was provided by a relatively small group. I remember donating to the project, but that was the extent of my involvement.
Over the years enthusiasts also participated in things like painting projects. The ride at LeSourdsville comes to mind, and once again it was a fun opportunity for a get together, a behind the scenes look, and the chance to help a struggling park at no charge.
More recently, Holiday World, under the direction of the late Will Koch, took direct advice from a select group of enthusiasts when designing and planning their wooden coasters. But anymore something like that is a rare occurance.

When I first joined ACE in 1978 it was comprised of a small group of men and women, mostly men. We were considered a kooky novelty by the public and the parks. In conjunction with that, regional theme parks were springing up everywhere and they were interested in building the biggest and fastest rides. They used us and our outings to promote their product and went all out to make sure we were treated well. It always resulted in television and newspaper coverage. Our group and the modern amusement park industry grew up together.
I think a couple of life-affecting things have happened since. First, it now seems everyone’s an enthusiast. Being an “expert” and being well-traveled is no longer a requirement. We’ve gone from a time when our group numbered in the couple of hundreds to literally hundreds of thousands. Second, social media for all of its blessings has exasperated that situation. Anyone with a device and a dollar can attend, whether it be personally or virtually, and they all have opinions. No longer is it necessary to travel for the experience, every ride on earth can be ridden on YouTube. In the end it’s led to misconceptions by those that are missing a chance to be better informed.

Some of these things are the reasons that I, personally, have pulled away from the enthusiast community. I no longer enjoy events like I used to. I’ll be the first to say that everyone deserves the chance to enjoy this great hobby, but the effort to make it special, and dare I say exclusive, is no longer there. Maybe it just can’t be.
I also see where where parks have changed their tune in regard to what they expect from us. In a sense we’re no longer needed to give them the extra push. I wouldn’t blame them if they’ve grown weary of dealing with people who don’t know their stuff or particularly, how to act. It’s clear that places like Holiday World and the Cedar Fair parks will, for now at least, continue to hold enthusiast events, and that’s fine. But Cedar Point’s recent policy of limiting the audience is an indication that things have gotten out of control and they’re no longer interested in entertaining us the way they used to. I can only believe the same goes for media events. A few of us at a time go a long way for them.

I’ll agree with the writer’s theory that this is something we’ve done to ourselves. Rather than treating our hobby as a privilege, many of us see it as an entitlement. We’ve manufactured a gap between ourselves and those we disdainfully refer to as GP. We no longer use our position to educate and promote, but to see what all we can get. And we use social media to voice opinions and complaints that millions can see and nobody gives a crap about.

^I hope to see a return, sometime in my life, to the days where enthusiasts mattered more in the grand scheme of things. I was never around for that time.

^ Because that time never really existed...

^ RCMAC just made a post about how park-enthusiast relationships were at least somewhat better prior to the days of "Online Enthusiast Morals", so it kind of did exist if I'm to take his word for it.