Conversion of TTD to LSM?

Jeff said:

Didn't we just have a discussion where someone quoted someone in a Q&A that using LIM/LSM technology would have required a much longer launch space to hit 120 mph?

In the article they mention the total length of Red Force's LSM section is 128 meters, with 32 meters of brakes. It's not crystal clear, but it sounds like there are brakes interspersed among the LSMs, so the entire launch section including these brakes is 160 meters, which results in a 112 mph launch. To reach 120 mph, they'd need about 172 meters of total launch track, or 564 feet.

A Google Maps measure of the available launch track (measuring from the south face of the launch building to about one block length away from the station) shows there is "only" about 535 feet available.

Rollbacks for everyone!

Chiapas is an awesome ride. My only complaint, besides a long wait in a less than desirable indoor queue, was continuous moving boats at the load/unload with no moving conveyor belt alongside to assist.
I bout did the splits trying to get in and out of that ride.

A Chiapas-style ride system with a Knott's-style theme would be win for CP. Provided that the ride works...

djDaemon said:

To reach 120 mph, they'd need about 172 meters of total launch track, or 564 feet.

A Google Maps measure of the available launch track (measuring from the south face of the launch building to about one block length away from the station) shows there is "only" about 535 feet available.

Rollbacks for everyone!

I heard they are going to use super-duper capacitors. That will decrease the necessary length.

I think you could put LSM's on the pull up.

^But then why? What cost savings does that give you?

You have a hydraulic system that fits the ride footprint that was originally intended, and the hydraulic system is able to be reset rather quickly and prepare for the next launch which is tremendous. If you add these LSMs to the track, now you're adding:

• Electric cabling all along the length of the track
• LSMs along the whole launch track
• Probably more sensors possibly
• Probably MUCH more expensive and in a way complicated (the system needs to fire in perfect order to grab the train and push it up, wheras the current system is just a pretty simple winch in a laymans sense

So, why convert it? It works already, and quite well now actually. Why add new to something that isn't needed?

^ substantially lower annual maintenance expense (according to the article), increased reliability, increased safety.

All good reasons to me.

It just depends on how many years out the break-even point would be.

And as far as the length of track needed to attain the speed... Red Force's specs are close enough to TTD's that I'd think incremental design improvements such as increased motor efficiency (how much electrical power is actually translated to train movement as opposed to lost via heat etc.) might make up the gap such that 120MPH could be achieved on TTD without lengthening the track.

A few thoughts, does Cedar Point have the power capabilities to pull this off? Also as said the launch track would be too short and LSMs don't offer the greatest force of acceleration to the point where it would ruin the ride, the point of the ride is the intensity of the launch and speed, not the height.

We did just have a similar discussion on Coasterbuzz. Here is the Monty Jasper quote:

"Linear motors would have been energy efficient and required little maintenance, but they wouldn't have been able to accelerate Top Thrill Dragster to 120 mph in four seconds," explains Jasper. "They would have required a longer approach to the hill, and had we gone that route, we would've had to remove or relocate two nearby attractions. Plus, riders would have been denied the excitement of such high acceleration."

Here is the full article.

http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/TechZone/Accumulators/Artic...cumulators

The article is obviously from over 10 years ago, and technology has certainly evolved. It certainly seems like LSMs can do more than they could 15 years ago. The final quote in the Red Force article in the original post seems very telling as well.

“The last hydraulic launch coaster we sold was Formula Rossa, which was nine years ago,” Schoppen concludes. “Since then, we’ve just sold LSM coasters. While we’re happy to build hydraulic launch coasters, the future nowadays is the LSM system, especially with the super cap energy storing technology.”

I think the more likely long term scenario is that Dragster is some day replaced by a new LSM launch coaster rather than retrofitted.