Conference Call Comments

A few things mentioned in the recent conference call seemed a little off.

Cost Cutting:

Dick Kinzel mentioned that his managers are doing a good job a cutting costs without hurting guest service. I'm not so sure about the guest service part.

It seems like every evening the Sky Ride cuts back on the number of gondolas on the cable because of short staffing. The line extends down to the midway, and people are waiting longer to ride because of cost cuts.

Food stands are closing early or not opening. Last Sunday the Grist Mill Refreshments were closed when I wanted to buy a Italian Sausage Sandwich at 8:00pm! I went there because I gave up on Transport Refreshments, it seems to never be open. I noticed numerous food stands closed in the evening. Not being able to buy your favorite items because of cost cutting is a step backwards for guest service.

Gemini now stacks sometimes with only two trains on each side. There seem to be fewer people working the ride than in previous years. Same with other coasters. Inefficient operation caused by short staffing certainly affects guest service.

I think upper management is missing the boat here if they believe that the lower managers cost cutting is having no effect on the guest's experience in the park.

Per Capita Spending:

While I certainly believe that per capita spending is up, some of the methods use to boost spending are a little dubious.

Look at the menu boards at most quick service food locations. They only mention "baskets", even though individual sandwiches are available. This seems to be aimed at getting people to buy fries.

While other places, like McDonald's, have value meals, they also clearly list the price of individual sandwiches. CP doesn't even list the availability, much less the price! This is a deceptive practice to get people to spend more in my opinion, and somewhat surprising coming from a park that in most cases has a high degree of integrity.

Comments?

I haven't been to the park yet at night, so I wouldn't know about that, but I have noticed the stacking on Gemini. It does seem like they are a llittle short staffed on that. It seems like on many rides at some points they have cut some staff which hurts capacity.

Pete, you're not the only one noticing these things. I had to agree with you on each and every point.

Reading this thread it kind of sad. The things that you mentioned are horrible ways to cut costs. The one that makes me the most mad is cutting jobs on Sky Ride. It is a main transportation ride in the park that hundreds of people use, why not have full staff on it and if cutting staff is necessary, do it on a less busy ride. When he mentioned cost cutting, was he referring to Cedar Point individually or Cedar Fair as a whole?

I think Mr. Kinzel was talking about Cedar Fair as a whole, so these things are probably happening at other parks as well.

The thing that really gets me is they slash cabins from 38 to 20 and cut capacity in half (thats about 1000 riders+ per hour) and save themselves a whopping $29 an hour. Give me a break. A family of 4 that paid full price could pay for over 6 hours of 38 cabins on Sky Ride.

And thats assuming all the employees get their bonus, which is not a realistic assumption.

Look at the CP & LE RR, I have only seen two trains running on one of the days I was there, and thats because it was a Saturday. I was there last Friday and they ran one train all day and the train was completly packed.

For what it's worth, the "basket trick" has been going on for at least the past four years, and probably longer, at at least some stands. It's not unique to CF, either---this trick was invented by Disney, IIRC.

On a Sunday when I went only 2 workers were on the platform fo CCMR(one at controls, one checking)! They also only ran one train on CP & LE RR... which was completly filled each time. DT had an hour wait(which was longer than the big coasters) because 2 cars were not running.

I have to agree 100% with Pete's comments. The park has become waaaay less of what it used to be.

Couple that with the on-going seatbelt fiasco and consequent high wait times for a one-time capacity machine, and you can see why I've only been to the park a handful of times this year, and left early on every occasion because it's just not as much fun standing in line as it is actually riding.

Sounds like the CF management have lost the plot, to me.

Yeah, I agree about the food stands being closed. Last time I was there I got hungry around 8:00 pm and wanted some "substantial" food, not just a pretzel or something. Yet every single food stand that sold these things was closed, so I got stuck taking up an hour at a sit-down place. That's a very Six-Flagish move to me.

Food service has been suffering for years in terms of availability, efficiency, quality and especially price. I think Dick should get into the park at times other than the middle of the day and rethink his comments. I've been consistently disappointed with food service for a long time at CP.

I honestly haven't been to the park enough this year to make a call on the ride operation, but I believe what you're saying, Pete. That's disappointing to hear.

Jeff,

You are right, a lot of the "negatives" have been around for years but for people like enthusiasts they have let that slide in the past because they were mainly there to ride rides.

Now that there is the perception that the rides operation is taking a turn for the worse (real perception or not) it is now magnifying all of the other issues we might have overlooked before.

I continue to say it. Sure, as a shareholder I'm happy to see that the percap continues to increase but the decreasing attendance numbers have to be taken more seriously. Why the decrease? Is it simply the economy? Or, do they need to look inside a little more?

We have, in this community of enthusiasts, a lot of people who on the outside are accused of being fanboys yet noone is shying away from complaining.

If your diehard fans are complaining, what does that tell you?

Everything Pete said is true and dissappointing, while I understand that the park is indeed a business, and cutting expenses especially in a year where it seems attendance is down is understandable. However, the methods of cost cutting they are utilizing right now are hurting the feeling of a quality experience.

As someone mentioned this combined with all of the negative public response to the seat belt incident, could perhaps cause further decrease in park attendance. With a lost focus on guest experience at the park, how long can it survive with that mentality of cost over people before falling into a park enviroment like that of Six Flags?

Maybe its my luck, but I haven't noticed to much in the way of food places closing early, although I have noticed it. I always thought Game Day Grille was open until shortly before the park closes, but on the last few trips I've noticed that it haas been closed at around 8 when I go to get a few quickies on Blue Streak. As for the ride-ops being a place of cost cutting, that has really been showing lately. I am constantly annoyed to find a long line for Sky Ride at night, and I know DT has a rather decent capacity when its running four sleds.

This year ride operation and capacity overall in my opinion has not been stellar. The rate of load and unload on most attractions is starting to feel vaguely Six Flagish. And this is not a good thing Cedar Fair, saving you money or not. *** Edited 8/9/2005 5:27:51 PM UTC by Jim Dines***

Someone once said in an older thread that "The only difference between Cedar Point and a Six Flags park is the number of ride vehicles running on the track." Sadly now even that seems to be changing. :(

Brian Noble said:
For what it's worth, the "basket trick" has been going on for at least the past four years

If my memory serves me right, I think when the "basket trick" started out CP called them "value meals" and the individual sandwich prices were still listed. It's only this season or last that the individual prices suddenly disappeared.

That is what rubs me the wrong way. You don't know what the price is before purchasing, and the less savvy probably don't even realize that the individual products are available. I just see that as a deception.

To add salt to the wound, on opening day I wanted to buy a hot dog at the MaxAir/Kiddie Kingdom stand and they couldn't sell it to me because the register was not programmed to sell individual hot dogs! I left and haven't returned since. I wonder if that was ever fixed?

I do think there is more to the attendance decline than just the economy, although that is probably a factor. But, if in previous visits, you perceived that the value and experience has declined, you will most likely not make the trip, or spend your money elsewhere, if money is tight.

Since 2000, 60 million dollars went to new coasters, plus around another 10 million for MaxAir, and attendance has been falling about 4% per year. That is not right and I believe it is a direct result of a diminished guest experience in most areas of the park.

And while we're on the subject, the laser show this year is a shell of what it used to be. Short, rehashed material, and more video than laser, which is probably cheaper to produce. The entire show seems to say "cost cutting", in spite of a few more fireworks.

CP has a problem. When their biggest fans (like me) are leaving the park considerably less satisfied than in the past, it is something they need to urgently address.

Back to the railroad again,
The park has cut the spending on the railroad this year. It's cheaper only running one train on slower days such as tuesday, due to the obvious reasons coal consumption, lubricants, etc...
Why run 2 trains half full per run, if you can run one full train per run.
If the park attendance reaches a certain point on a certain day, the crew may be called to put the second train on.

By the way- For those of you hoping to see if Albert, Jennie K., or the Ward Kimball get returned into service, Ward as of now, is the #1 candidate, and that won't happen for at least 2 years. ;)

*** Edited 8/9/2005 6:43:18 PM UTC by cp&le rr guy***

Another thing with the train that annoys the heck out of me are the crossing gates, specifically the MF/Mantis gate. That gates come down before you can even hear the train coming and its usually two minutes before the train even shows up! I know its minor, but I don't like spending 5 minutes at that crossing when I could just be spending two or three.