Changes to Geauga Lake from being Six Flags

I haven't been to Geauga Lake yet this year, but I've been thinking of going. I had a Six Flags pass last year, but with the removal of the animals on the old Sea World side, it didn't seem like the bargain it used to be (IMO, cutting $10 off the ticket price would have made more sense than $5 since it's almost 1/2 the park without it).

But I'm interested in hearing about how the park compares under Cedar Fair's management thus far (ride loading speeds, lines, cleanliness of the park in general, etc.). Also, what parts of the park are open on the old Sea World side? I see they've been advertising a new ski show so I assume they're using the ski stadium over there? Does anyone know what their plans are for next year for that side of the park? Are they going to start putting rides over there or do they have any plans to bring in at least 'some' animals (seems like the Shark & Penguin encounters would be fairly easy to run at least and then there's that 3D theater and motion simulator they have on that side). Personally, I think it would be a travesty to not have any animals shows in Ohio anymore. I was just starting to like Six Flags' shows about the same as the old Sea World last year and I loved the connectedness of the two parks with the boat and floating boardwalk. But without the animals, it sounds like it's just Geauga Lake again with an empty park sitting across the lake.

Also, I'm curious about theming there this year. Have they renamed the rides? I mean is Batman's Knight Flight just called Knight Flight now or something? Or did Six Flags let them use the same names? Did they have to completely redecorate the kid's land or something?

Finally, do you think it's worth going this year or would I be better off going to Cedar Point again or some other park like Kennywood instead?

Cedar Fair is quite clearly concentrating on getting the crew sizes up, the operations under control, and the park cleaned up. When I visited on 7/5, they were running two trains on each coaster that could run two trains (rumor has it that on busy days this season, the floorless coaster ran three trains, something Six Flags never even tried!) and only the Freefall, Impulse, and Boomerang were out of service the whole day...in each case because of mechanical problems that predate Cedar Fair's ownership.

Many rides have been renamed, and the kids areas have been redecorated. For details, visit http://www.geaugalake.com . Back in the Sea World area, the park is only open back to the water ski show stadium and the ferry dock. That means the Starfish and Bee Bee rides are inaccessible, but the other rides on that side of the park including the 4D theater (still showing Pirates) and the simulator (still showing Mission: Bermuda Triangle) are operating. No penguins or sharks, sorry.

Regarding ticket price, don't overlook the nice discount you can get with a coupon (available on the web page or from Burger King restaurants in the ADI) or the even nicer discount that exists on a two-day ticket. Be aware that the two-day ticket is for two days that need not be consecutive, which for me makes up for the fact that I don't have a season pass there.

Given the VERY short timeline from the completion of the sale until opening day, it's remarkable what Geauga Lake has accomplished this season. I have a feeling they don't know for certain what their whole plan is for next season, but I'll bet that place will be busy this winter. Even if they don't add any new attractions at all!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
*** Edited 7/31/2004 3:57:30 PM UTC by RideMan***

Dave, thanks for the positive report card. As a Geauga Lake employee, I am glad to see the enthusiast community saying positive things about the park. I also thank you for taking the time to chat with me that day, as it was great to finally meet you!

Now the good news since your visit is that both Head Spin and Steel Venom have received some much needed TLC, and the ride experience on both is back to being great (although many enthusiasts get tired of standard boomerangs.) I am especially impressed with the way Head Spin is running (I got to test ride it before we re-opened it).

Anyway, feel free to come back and visit the park. We may still be in transition, but I try to do my best to make our guests have the best experience possible, and I am confident that you will have fun. Working rides isn't always a fun job, as it may seem, but hearing the positive praise from enthusiasts, and seeing the smiles on guests faces makes the job worth it!

-Sam

It's funny you bring up 3 train operation on the floorless, Dave. When I first saw it run like that, I had to pinch myself because I had never seen it run with 3 trains ever. They were doing an excellent job at it, I might add, not stacking at all. Not only have I never seen 3 train operation under Six Flags ownership but I never saw Six Flags operate 2 trains without stacking. Quite a difference if you ask me.

If only they could run more than 1 on X - Flight, that is something I have yet to see.

The multiple trains running on the floorless was not as much of a surprise to me as seeing two trains running on Big Dipper. I almost fainted with excitement because this is something that I haven't seen in years.

I can't wait until RWB gets back to running a second train. Hopefully it will be next season. I've heard rumors about Hercules trains being used. It seems possible to me, but I would rather ride the Gerstlauer trains.

Richie, the Hercules trains could be a good thing or a bad thing.

Depends on whether they overhaul them and remove the headrests first.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RWB has two types of trains?

Why?

No.

Raging Wolf Bobs HAD the trailered PTC trains that tear the track up and run horribly.

The Villain had three Gerstlauer trains, although the ride is only set up to run two (it was designed for three trains, but doesn't have all the necessary hardware installed. It has two storage tracks, but it doesn't have a block brake at the mid-course block brake location.). When Six Flags re-tracked the back half of Raging Wolf Bobs, they removed the trailered PTC trains, and installed the 'spare' train from the Villain. So now Raging Wolf Bobs has one Gerstlauer train.

With the demolition of Hercules, Cedar Fair has two articulated PTC trains (in addition to at least three, perhaps five trailered trains...two from Raging Wolf Bobs, one from Hercules, and maybe two from Timber Wolf) that they are not currently using. Hercules used two trains of 2-bench articulated cars, similar to the trains on Mean Streak. They COULD put those trains on Raging Wolf Bobs. As I recall, Hercules even used the side-plunger lap bar release mechanism, which means it should work with the system installed for the Gerstlauer train.

The only bad thing about that is that Hercules had headrests on the trains. That would be a Bad Thing™ on Raging Wolf Bobs.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Speaking of Villian's 3 trains, I wonder if Cedar Fair would ever bother installing that missing midcourse (the track section for the brake is there, the storage track is there, just add brakes and reprogram controls). It may not really be worth it, but imagine Villain with three good PTC's running...

(Not that I actually have anything against the Gersts it currently runs -- they're uncomfortable trains for lateral-heavy rides like Legend, but for airtime rides like Villain they're really not bad, and they LOOK great)

Until the park's attendance shapes up and there are actually lines for Villain I would see it as totally pointless adding a third train to a coaster that can't keep a line.

That, and CCI had a bad habit of designing rides that ended up running a lot faster than they expected. Anybody know the running time on Villain right now? If it isn't at least 2:40 and if the block spacing doesn't allow for an interval of at least 70 seconds, odds are they'd never make it work

Incidentally, CCI did build at least one ride that was clearly designed for a workable 3-train operation: ride time on Shivering Timbers on the day it opened was 2:42, with the mid-course no-brake run located in just the right spot...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I was last at Geauga Lake in 1992 and went on July 10th. The place has definitely improved from the old days. I never saw how Six Flags operated it but I think it's definitely a better park. My only complaint was that on the day I went there was at least 5 rides shut down for long periods of time. Maybe it was just that day, I don't know. The park seems nice and clean though.

Wow you are speaking back in the Funtime days. The park was still just a small family park in those days. The park had 4 coasters back then? It doesn't even compare to that now.

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RideMan said:
Incidentally, CCI did build at least one ride that was clearly designed for a workable 3-train operation: ride time on Shivering Timbers on the day it opened was 2:42, with the mid-course no-brake run located in just the right spot...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Unfortunately Timbers only runs 2 trains and stacks pretty bad at that. I would think they could get a train unloaded, loaded and out in time, but more often than not, they can't. I think a lot of it has to do with the block position on Timbers, and the fact that it doesn't release until the loaded train is completely out of the station. By the time it pulls into the station, the other is almost cresting the hill, and before everyone gets out and then reloaded its just about back to the blocks. Only a handful of times have I seen a train not have to stop at the blocks, and never with full trains.

Well, Cedar Fair culture isn't likely all that prominent when the previous owner's daughter is running the place. That's not a cut on her, just noting that it's not the radical change you might see at Geauga Lake.

Jeff,

We had some MiA employees visit the park recently, and visit their old boss. They commented to me how much more Geauga Lake was like Cedar Point, compared to Michigan's Adventure, even though Cedar Fair has owned it for a much shorter period.

Interesting that you mention that not long after some of my guests did. :)

Now when will you come visit? I think you would like the direction in which we are headed at the park.

-Sam

There is another reason for that, Sam. Remember, the Lococos...the FunTime family...were former Cedar Point people, so before Premier Parks bought the place, Geauga Lake was trying hard to emulate Cedar Point any way they could. So in spite of all of Premier Parks/Six Flags' meddling, Geauga Lake probably had more in common with Cedar Point to begin with than Michigan's Adventure did. Although it was pretty obvious from my first visit at MiAdv that the Jourdans were also patterning their operation after Cedar Point.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

What I've missed at Geauga Lake the past few years has been some of the flat rides they removed when it was renamed Six Flags Ohio, namely The Rotor and that Rocketship type swing, the latter of which was one of, if not the last one operating in the country from what I read somewhere. I remember riding one those when I was just a kid at Idora Park in the late '70s and early '80s and so it was very nostalgic.

Idora had theirs over a little food stand and I thought I read somewhere that when they initially pulled it, they were thinking of relocating it and putting a restaurant or food-stand underneath it to mount it on. That's a good idea. If Geauga Lake still has it (I heard in year's past it was on a backlot or something), I hope they'll reconsider that idea and restore such a classic flat ride. I'm not sure who still has a Rotor operating Kings Dominion used to have a really cool one in a cave-like setting with overhead lights and played rock music (I remember Tears For Fears' "Shout" playing the last time I rode it), but the last time I was there (3 years ago), I didn't see it so maybe they removed theirs also. I've always got a kick out of that ride and Cedar Point hasn't had one in ages. It doesn't take up much space, so you think they could find room for it on the Animal side or something now.

When I used to go to Geauga Lake in year's past (before the giant expansion by Premier), the flat rides that CP didn't have were the things I enjoyed most along with the Big Dipper and water park. When they removed those, it was just one more step towards, "I might as well go to Cedar Point instead if they're going to turn Geauga Lake into a lesser version of CP." What made Geauga Lake special to me in the past was that it was DIFFERENT from CP. Its water park was included (and I still think the loss of "The Wave" didn't help as it was kind of unique compared to the "constant wave" pools most water parks have these days). Geauga Lake also had some classic flat rides. It cost a lot less and was a lot closer to me (1 hour instead of 2.5 hours). By removing flat rides and jacking up prices to CP levels, Six Flags then only had one major factor that still kept me coming back and that was they bought Sea World and so it was a fantastic deal with a season pass to be able to see animal shows and ride rides in the same day.

I'm not sure what the deal was last year (other than constant rain which definitely ruine a lot of potential trips for me), but I tend to wonder if some of the crowds that used to frequent Geauga Lake in the old days stopped going when they raised the prices up to near CP levels. I know I tended to think, if I'm going to put out around $40 (before any discounts), I'm going to the park with the big coasters (and I tend to prefer "Out & Back" air-type coasters anyway, which CP has several of and Geauga Lake really doesn't have any, save maybe Big Dipper and even then not quite. I haven't gone this year so far because with the loss of the animals and still fairly high ticket prices, I'm still more inclined to just drive the extra hour and ride my favorite coasters at CP instead.

I may go at Oktoberfest, though. I always enjoyed that in years past at Geauga Lake. Unfortunately, that doesn't conincide with the other thing I like about Geauga Lake and that's the included water park. I liked those new 2-person raft slides last year. But i haven't personally been there when the old body slides were running (Were they ever running the past few years? They got a new coat of paint when it switched to Six Flags, but they were never running when I was there which was kind of bad from a nostalgic standpoint also, as I was there as a kid the first season they had them, etc. They really aren't situated as well to the new slides (as they were designed to go with the old "Wave" centralized location), but do empty right at the kiddie area (which was under repair last year when I was there, so that might have bee why they were closed).

Dave, the headrest's on Herc's trains are the reason I was giving the "G" trains my vote. If they do actually show up, I would bet the headrests do too. And I agree with you 100% that the headrests would be a bad thing on the Bobs.

The "G" trains have far more ills than just a slight block of vision, IMO (the only 'bad' thing headrests do). I'd take a more comfortable train with headrests any day over a leg basher. OTOH, headrests serve no function what-so-ever on the average coaster (TTD excepted). They just seem to keep the insurance companies happy for some odd reason (apparently they think whiplash is a common occurance or something as apparently they think coasters run into each other all the time so we have to have headrests....)