Cedar Point opposing an ADA rule
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I think the industry is right-on here. Cedar Point in particular has been very access conscious. You can't expect a park to re-engineer rides, and you certainly can't put a wheel chair space on a coaster train like you would put a space in a movie theater. Anything that is not an integral part of the ride other than the human is a serious safety issue.
I have seen dozens of riders with various disabilities ride Magnum and Raptor without a problem. Their companions and ride hosts have been very helpful in getting them strapped in and the riders always come back with smiles.
What we don't need is government regulation for an industry that has aggressively regulated itself.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
I have seen dozens of riders with various disabilities ride Magnum and Raptor without a problem. Their companions and ride hosts have been very helpful in getting them strapped in and the riders always come back with smiles.
What we don't need is government regulation for an industry that has aggressively regulated itself.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Don't get me started on gov't regulation again...
I especially like the quote from the guy at the end of the article...
"If you're taking my money, the least you can do is provide the accessibility,"
No doubt, since Walt returned from the grave, held a gun to his head, and said, "You WILL go to Disneyworld...
What a crock of @$%&
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Guide To The Point 1 is really good value... *** This post was edited by Mango Madness on 1/19/00. ***
I especially like the quote from the guy at the end of the article...
"If you're taking my money, the least you can do is provide the accessibility,"
No doubt, since Walt returned from the grave, held a gun to his head, and said, "You WILL go to Disneyworld...
What a crock of @$%&
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Guide To The Point 1 is really good value... *** This post was edited by Mango Madness on 1/19/00. ***
Certainly it would be worthwhile to establish that a problem actually exists before demanding a remedy. First of all, any park will gladly notify any potential customer of any physical restrictions associated with its attractions. Cedar Point, for instance, has a very specific guide which indicates *exactly* what the physical requirements and limitations are for a particular ride...for instance, "ability to brace with two functioning limbs" or the like (in fact, I think Raptor may have a prohibition on lower-body prosthetics...). So in the article we have one man whose experience was ruined because he couldn't get down into the log on Splash Mountain? A couple of important points here...
First of all, most rides have vehicles which are considered transfer seats...that is, a wheelchair-bound individual must relocate to the ride seat. On most rides, this may be difficult, but is certainly not impossible. Flumes are an exception because the seat is generally at or below the platform floor level, and inside an enclosed boat...and there is no way to correct that situation. If I am reading the article correctly, the proposal is to require a transfer chair...that is, a means for transferring a nonambulatory rider from a wheelchair into the ride vehicle. At the moment this usually requires the rider to be lifted by an attendant, an action which park employees are usually *not permitted* to assist with. Trouble is, mechanically, this is impossible with most modern rides, as it would be impossible to transfer the rider from the transfer seat into the ride vehicle. It might be possible to correct the problem for new ride designs, but it seems that existing rides could not be easily and safely modified. So even if the rules are enacted, and the parks incur tremendous expense, and rides are specially modified, and in some cases capacity reduced and seats left empty, the guy in the article still won't be able to ride Splash Mountain unassisted.
First of all, most rides have vehicles which are considered transfer seats...that is, a wheelchair-bound individual must relocate to the ride seat. On most rides, this may be difficult, but is certainly not impossible. Flumes are an exception because the seat is generally at or below the platform floor level, and inside an enclosed boat...and there is no way to correct that situation. If I am reading the article correctly, the proposal is to require a transfer chair...that is, a means for transferring a nonambulatory rider from a wheelchair into the ride vehicle. At the moment this usually requires the rider to be lifted by an attendant, an action which park employees are usually *not permitted* to assist with. Trouble is, mechanically, this is impossible with most modern rides, as it would be impossible to transfer the rider from the transfer seat into the ride vehicle. It might be possible to correct the problem for new ride designs, but it seems that existing rides could not be easily and safely modified. So even if the rules are enacted, and the parks incur tremendous expense, and rides are specially modified, and in some cases capacity reduced and seats left empty, the guy in the article still won't be able to ride Splash Mountain unassisted.
Uhm we already feel bad because there disabled. They come to the park knowing there disabled and thats why they get discounted tickets right?
So if they want equal rights to everything i want walking escalators for the whole park im tired of walking so someone should address my needs too.
I know i sound ignorant but thats asking for alot.
So if they want equal rights to everything i want walking escalators for the whole park im tired of walking so someone should address my needs too.
I know i sound ignorant but thats asking for alot.
Also consider the Psychological aspect of not being able to enter the ride the same way everyone else does, to not experiance the change of perspective, etc. that the rides station was designed for. And the looks that people in wheelchairs must get when the enter the platform by way of exit ramp, that they are somehow cheating in line. And how pissed off people get when the ride is stopped to allow them to get on and off. I think they would rather wait in the normal queue with everyone else, why they need stairs on Raptor for example is beyond me, ramps could be more pleasing to eye. As for the ADA it was created to allow hadicapped people access to places that was impossible to gain access to. Regardless of what it is. And rides in general are severly lacking in that. What does a sign that says "Only for physically and mentally perfect people" remind you of?
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"Meesa Okee Day"-Jar Jar Binks
"Gungan no Liken outsiders"-Jar Jar Binks
I can't believe that parks have started adding seats on coasters for abnormally large people. An example would be Alpengeist at Busch Gardens. If people are really that overweight, they aren't in any condition too be riding a roller coaster in the first place. I don't know whether CP is doing this or not with MF, but I don't understand the need. And I totally agree with the previous post in that, if a person is able to wait through the queue line in a wheelchair, then they should. I know a wheelchair would fit through the Magnum queue, so they should have to wait just like the rest of us! Not only that...but just about anyone can get a wheelchair at places like Disney if their willing to pay for it. The whole system is just messed up. It should be about EQUAL rights, not about taking away my freedoms to compensate for someone elses. Having to wait a little longer while someone with a disability boards a ride is fine with me, but enough with the "give me special treatment" crap! Everyone should be treated EQUALLY, regardless of who they are!! (Can you tell how I feel about this?)
First I think it should be up to the manufacturer to decide if they can design the ride safe for that type of ride. I am sure Cedar Point is very worried that this will affect safety and capacity. If this goes into affect the ADA is going to have a lot of jobless angry people on their hands. The fact is their is no problem. A friend of mine is in a wheel chair and I am sure he doesn't want to navigate his way through the bars in the Q-waiting area. Someone on here at one time in a wheel chair stated how hard it was to get up the ramp to Magnum. The fact is, is my friend was very happy with the way he was treated at CP. Not just by the people who worked their but also by the guests. They move you through the line so fast you don't even care if someone goes in front of you. Also keep in mind that someone unable to wait in the line must wait equivalent of the ride time or have someone wait in the line for him/her.
This may not be the case of other parks though. I think the government should listen to what Cedar Point sess to do. They seem to make everyone happy.
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Who else feels like writeing the ADA right now?
This may not be the case of other parks though. I think the government should listen to what Cedar Point sess to do. They seem to make everyone happy.
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Who else feels like writeing the ADA right now?
The point of the matter is not queue design, it's in changing a rollercoaster or flatride design so that everyone can ride, even when that would mean that the ride is now less safe for everyone. It's also that when a ride has posted requirements, they should be followed. if this means that parapalegics cannot ride Raptor, oh well. Midgets can't ride Mantis. Too **** bad. You design for the masses and accomodate as many as possible. You can't design for both a guy who's 5'2 and weighs 560lb AND a guy who's 6'7 and weight 95lb.
This whole political correctness thing and everyone is entitled to everything view nowadays has finally hit the amusement park industry. I saw a few weeks back a family sued so their 12 year old with cerebral palsey (spelling may be wrong) could play soccer with regular kids. Here is this poor child with a walker,barely walking down the field on his own trying to move the ball a few inches at a time, with the "normal" kids watching him not knowing what to do, I know that people with disabilities want to feel and be normal, but that was a bit ridiculous and the same thing goes here.
What if Christopher Reeve or someone in his condition wants to ride, are the parks going to have to put respirators in 1 of every 100 seats of a ride?
These bleeding hearts finally need to udnerstand that there are some things that disabled people should not try to do, for their safety as well as others. Imagine a guy who cannot move his legs or lower half of his body having to be carried down from the top of millennium force on a 40mph wind day or during rain. It is a safety hazard to him and all around him.
I'm not cracking on disabled people at all,I know what they go through, a close relative of mine was wheelchair bound for the last year of his life and it is tough, but he knew there were limitations on what he could do and others need to understand that as well.
What if Christopher Reeve or someone in his condition wants to ride, are the parks going to have to put respirators in 1 of every 100 seats of a ride?
These bleeding hearts finally need to udnerstand that there are some things that disabled people should not try to do, for their safety as well as others. Imagine a guy who cannot move his legs or lower half of his body having to be carried down from the top of millennium force on a 40mph wind day or during rain. It is a safety hazard to him and all around him.
I'm not cracking on disabled people at all,I know what they go through, a close relative of mine was wheelchair bound for the last year of his life and it is tough, but he knew there were limitations on what he could do and others need to understand that as well.
While I disagree with the proposed legislation, I am a little disturbed at the lack of compassion sprinkled in some of the above posts.
It's not practical or safe to have wheelchair-bound people wait in a queue. If there were any kind of disaster, that person would get trampled and could not easily escape.
Next time you exit Raptor, remember that you at least can walk off of the platform. If you think you're getting ripped off or something because someone gets to enter the ride from the exit, why don't you ask them how they feel about it.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
It's not practical or safe to have wheelchair-bound people wait in a queue. If there were any kind of disaster, that person would get trampled and could not easily escape.
Next time you exit Raptor, remember that you at least can walk off of the platform. If you think you're getting ripped off or something because someone gets to enter the ride from the exit, why don't you ask them how they feel about it.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
I have no problem waiting while someone who can get into the car on their own rides ahead of me, I have absolutely no problem with that, that is equivalent to having handicapped parking places closer to the stores which is totally right.
I think the issue here is that people who are paralyzed from the waist down or cannot move without literally being carried want to ride coasters. I cannot see how this could possibly be safe for anyone involved. Case in point, my example of a person who cannot stand on their own being stranded on top of MF in a windstorm, if someone has to literally carry them down and happened to fall it could be a disaster just because we had to be "politically correct" and let them ride.
The issue was having handicapped seating on the cars themselves, not having to wait in line while someone rides ahead of us. There's nothing wrong with that. At least that was how I read the article. If a person needs mechanical help such as a lift to get into the ride, how will they get out if it breaks?
I think the issue here is that people who are paralyzed from the waist down or cannot move without literally being carried want to ride coasters. I cannot see how this could possibly be safe for anyone involved. Case in point, my example of a person who cannot stand on their own being stranded on top of MF in a windstorm, if someone has to literally carry them down and happened to fall it could be a disaster just because we had to be "politically correct" and let them ride.
The issue was having handicapped seating on the cars themselves, not having to wait in line while someone rides ahead of us. There's nothing wrong with that. At least that was how I read the article. If a person needs mechanical help such as a lift to get into the ride, how will they get out if it breaks?
Who comes up with these absurd laws?? I have nothing against the handicapped but lets face it there are some things that they just can't do and coasters are one of them. Bravey said it perfectly what happens when MF is stuck at the top and good old handicapped is in the train and can't get down. Helping them into the car and out is ok, but requiring a law for all coasters is well you don't want to know the words i am thinking. I guarantee CP and parks across the country would be getting sued up the $#% from handicaps saying that there machine did this to me or the ride hurt me, and some excuse as stupid as this would work great in court. just think of the lady who sued Mcdonalds for getting burnt from spilling coffee on her. yeah you know the story. That damn government-are you sure we still live in a free country??
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Welcome back Millennium Force riders...We all want to know how was your RIDE!!!!!
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Welcome back Millennium Force riders...We all want to know how was your RIDE!!!!!
As someone who is among the so-called "masses", I weigh 150 pounds and am 5 feet 10. I can easily ride any attraction at the park. A friend of mine weighs 285 pounds and stands 6 foot 2. He is unable to ride the Raptor and Power Tower due to the restraint system. And although he had ridden it in the past, he did not try the Mantis last season since they added the seat belts, but said that was no big loss if he couldn't ride it. I recall the first time we tried to ride Power Tower. Unlike Raptor which had a "try-out" seat at the entrance, Power Tower did not. We asked the entrance host if he would be able to ride and said "I don't see why not". When my friend tried to strap in to the seat, the seat belt was about an inch away from the latch. So after waiting in line for an hour, he didn't get to ride. Needless to say, he wasn't happy. My friend is NOT overweight. He is just a bigger person and is in great shape to ride coasters and do other normal activities.
As one person above wrote about Alpengeist (although not in a very positive way) at BGW, they use rows 4 and 5 with seat belts on the side to accomodate guests with "chest measurements approaching 54 inches". My friend actually got to ride Alpengeist and enjoyed it immensely. He noted that perhaps CP should try this. The thing is, anyone can ride in those seats, so it's not like they are only used for larger guests. And what harm is it doing to a regular guest that BGW went out of their way to accomodate more guests? With the accident on SFDL's Superman last year, I can only hope my friend will be able to ride MF. And I can only hope that the kind people above will not be there to laugh at him if he is told he cannot ride.
ray p.
As one person above wrote about Alpengeist (although not in a very positive way) at BGW, they use rows 4 and 5 with seat belts on the side to accomodate guests with "chest measurements approaching 54 inches". My friend actually got to ride Alpengeist and enjoyed it immensely. He noted that perhaps CP should try this. The thing is, anyone can ride in those seats, so it's not like they are only used for larger guests. And what harm is it doing to a regular guest that BGW went out of their way to accomodate more guests? With the accident on SFDL's Superman last year, I can only hope my friend will be able to ride MF. And I can only hope that the kind people above will not be there to laugh at him if he is told he cannot ride.
ray p.
Very true... you can even do it through the house and senate Web sites. Rep. Sherrod Brown (or his aides) have written me every time I've talked to them in the last year or so.
MF will not have anyone walking down stairs because there won't be any stairs (not to mention the ride wouldn't be dispatched in a wind storm and suddenly stopped at the top). Wheelchair-bound people SHOULD be able to ride coasters, end of story. There's no good reason that they can't. Do walk-downs happen? Yes, but I've only seen it happen once after three years with a season pass and hundreds of park visits. It's an assumed risk. Frankly a lot of able-bodied people on this board have said they wouldn't walk down anyway!
It's easy for people to say that those who can't walk on shouldn't ride, but those are people who CAN walk. I know if I couldn't use my legs, I sure as hell wouldn't put up with people telling me what I can't do.
To summarize... the ADA amendments are not necessary. However, those people who are disabled are entitled to ride if it can be done safely. It has nothing to do with political correctness... it has to do with basic human respect and dignity.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
MF will not have anyone walking down stairs because there won't be any stairs (not to mention the ride wouldn't be dispatched in a wind storm and suddenly stopped at the top). Wheelchair-bound people SHOULD be able to ride coasters, end of story. There's no good reason that they can't. Do walk-downs happen? Yes, but I've only seen it happen once after three years with a season pass and hundreds of park visits. It's an assumed risk. Frankly a lot of able-bodied people on this board have said they wouldn't walk down anyway!
It's easy for people to say that those who can't walk on shouldn't ride, but those are people who CAN walk. I know if I couldn't use my legs, I sure as hell wouldn't put up with people telling me what I can't do.
To summarize... the ADA amendments are not necessary. However, those people who are disabled are entitled to ride if it can be done safely. It has nothing to do with political correctness... it has to do with basic human respect and dignity.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
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Closed topic.