Building New Rides vs Updating Old Ones

Hello all,

I’m hoping your expertise can help me here.
Can someone help me understand why we don’t see CP updating older rides like Blue Steak, Gemini, or Raptor?

Im not suggesting replacing or renaming. Simply replacing the track and trains to make the ride experience much better. Similar to Steel Vengeance makeover from Mean Streak. We’ve all seen how successful that was for the park.

In my opinion, I’d be perfectly fine not seeing CP build a new ride for 5 years or so and simply focus on updating the older rides.

Personally, I can’t stand riding blue steak, corkscrew, raptor and others because of how aggressive they are. I know most people agree.

Logic would suggest it could be much cheaper to freshen those rides up and also spread out the length of lines more. From a sales standpoint, it would also make it to where people would need two full days in the park vs only one.

Generally, you can be content and ride most rides you want in only one day.

I appreciate everyone’s feedback!

Everyone I know loves Raptor exactly as it is.

Blue Streak is fine, the trains and seatbelts just suck.

Corkscrew is what it is. An old Arrow looper.

I'm not really sure what could be "done" to any of those rides in the same spirit that a wood to steel hybrid RMC conversion can do. That's a very unique situation that just happens to work.

Well to answer your question, they have. In the past 10 years you’ve seen them improve on the experiences of 3 roller coasters; Mantis in 2015, Mean Streak in 2018 and TTD in 2024. I’m sure Blue Streak will get some retracking at some point in the near future and the arrows will either get some love or the axe in the near future.

I'm curious why you chose Blue Streak, Gemini, and Raptor. And then Corkscrew.

Blue Streak is the oldest operating coaster in the park, and the way it rides is part of the appeal. It's not supposed to be a smooth-as-silk air-time-popping machine, it's supposed to be Blue Streak.

Raptor rides exactly as it did when I first rode it in 1994. What could possibly be changed?

And Gemini is also riding as well as it ever has...complete with high-fiving and the occasional "dollar-bill" game (if you know, you know). I see people getting off this ride as happy as ever. Now if you want to talk operations, Gemini is a shell of its former self; that's the one thing I wish could be improved.

Calling Steel Vengeance a makeover is a bit of a stretch. It's an entirely new ride that just-so-happens to maintain the bulk of the original wooden structure.

Here is the fundamental problem with what you are suggesting; the rides that have gotten "reimagined" were all problematic in their own way. Mean Streak was just terrible. Top Thrill Dragster tried to murder multiple people and was a blunder from day one. Mantis...well...hurt. Each of those attraction were given a new lease on life by fundamentally changing them.

The rides you mentioned 1) are all iconic to the park, and 2) really have nothing wrong with them.

As much as I do not "enjoy" riding Corkscrew, it was my youngest daughter's favorite ride in the park for a good 3-year stretch. I enjoyed riding it with her, and would happily marathon it with her all day during those years. Part of what makes the Cedar Point experience great is that it offers something for everyone.

Unless you like log flumes.

Or modern woodies.

Or hot dogs.

As far as make-overs, I'd like to see more enhancements around the park. A little landscaping and theming go a long way, while the rides themselves tell a story. It would be nice to see CCMR get new trains with adjustable lap bars.

Enclosing some of CCMR (see Adventure Express at KI) so that it actually has some semi-passable semblance of, you know, being an actual ride through a mine would go a long way toward improving the ride experience.

Blue Streak needs to run two trains. Other than one train MF it somehow might be the slowest line in the park.

djdaemon,

I have thought that the CCMR should have the helix at the end enclosed and totally dark. Some other parts of the course could also be enclosed for sure. I am not keen on messing with things like that but a re-imagining of the entire course would make more Adventure Express like.

Thank you for the replies everyone.
I realize everyone on this chat are CP regulars that all have season passes like myself.

I’ll tell you though, I can’t stand riding blue streak, raptor, corkscrew, ccmr. They are simply far too aggressive for me or the trains are a nightmare to sit in.
I know it’s unpopular to say Raptor, but last sharp turn back into the station gives me a headache every time.
I’d be willing to bet majority of riders, especially people 40’s and above with kids or back problems would agree. It’s too much to take when you’re trying to keep up with young kids in the park all day.

let me ask you, if all of those rides went through new track and train upgrades to enhance the riding experience, would it increase the total amount of time people want to spend in the park? Thus, spending more money in the park.

I recognize that tt2 went through the renovation, but let’s be honest, that wouldn’t of happened if that poor woman hadn’t gotten injured.

Would all of you loyal CP supporters be ok if Cp spent 7-10 years (ish) simply refurbishing rides at a much cheaper cost to the park? With no new ride introduced in that period.

Is it cheaper?

Great responses btw! Thank you for the feedback 😀

djDaemon:

Enclosing some of CCMR (see Adventure Express at KI)

Mine caves and trains like AE would be awesome!

While not unheard of to retrack a ride (loch ness monster?) it seems like they get plenty of happy people as is. If corkscrew needed work it would probably be in the form of removal and replace with something that would also loop over the midway. Bluestreak is rough but it’s not that intense. Gemini is smooth. CCMR seems to be loved by kids (was my favorite for years in the 90s). If anything I’d vote for retrack and reprofile of magnum but then again I enjoy that ride a lot as is.

Chris:

I know it’s unpopular to say Raptor, but last sharp turn back into the station gives me a headache every time.
...especially people 40’s and above... It’s too much to take when you’re trying to keep up with young kids in the park all day.

I must hide my age well. As a 47 year old I rode Raptor 46 times in a row without ever leaving the train. Loved it. I could outride my kids back then and still can at 57.

Mantis into Rougarou, Mean Streak into Steel Vengeance, TTD into TT2. Think we're seeing a recent trend in this direction (of updating old rides) over the last decade, at least at Cedar Point.

Chris:

let me ask you, if all of those rides went through new track and train upgrades to enhance the riding experience, would it increase the total amount of time people want to spend in the park? Thus, spending more money in the park.

Probably not. New trains for Mine Ride, reprofiling the turn into the brake run on Raptor or retracking Corkscrew aren't likely to bring in attendance or account for any in-park purchases. But those things do have the potential to raise the overall guest satisfaction experience. But I'm not sure it would be to a level to make it worth doing.

I'd be curious to see the true ROI they got drom the Mantis to Rougarou conversion.

GL2CP:

If anything I’d vote for retrack and reprofile of magnum but then again I enjoy that ride a lot as is.

I love Magnum just as it is, it has been my subjective favorite since it opened. The only changes I would support are un-reprofiling the 3rd drop into the pretzel (i remember how it was in year 1 and i loved it, despite getting ass slammed into seat), and restoring the streaky strobe lights that shot up and down the first hill in the early years.

I was hoping the chasing strobes on Magnum's lift hill would've been brought back when the tunnel effects returned a few years back.

Blue Streak should absolutely be re-tracked by Gravity Group like was done to the Racer at Kings Island. Both are classic Allen creations, but Racer now is the superior ride. It still feels like the classic wood out and back , but without the unnecessary jackhammering and shaking. This is the most realistic upgrade since there is precedence.

Mine Ride’s main issue is the trains. Perhaps they could find some extra “modern” Arrow mine trains in the chain now. (I am not sure why the 2 extra Gemini trains did not pan out, seemed like a good solution) Or A manufacturer should be able to design a pair of modern mine trains. Neither have happened yet so this is probably unlikely.

I would love a Corkscrew re-track, at least the 2nd half of the ride. Tennessee Tornado which has nearly identical trains is one of the smoothest , fun multi-looping sit downs there is thanks to modern track design. If corkscrew got some re-engineered portion this could make it a fun beginner coaster for many years.

The precut, horizontally laminated track that TGG makes is game changing. It totally remakes the maintenance plan and by every account, the ride is better and faster (because no washboarding). I wouldn't hate Blue Streak getting that treatment, though I bet they would have to trim it just a little. When it's running well, those upstops hit hard.

Bringing more people into the park isn't the only metric by which you should judge a ride. Especially a supporting attraction. Getting more people in that line reduces the number of people in other ones. So if you make a ride that isn't as popular more enjoyable, it might not show in ticket sales, but it can help reduce wait times and crowding throughout the park. And that has its own value.

If Rougarou had restraints that the general public didn't bash their head against, (Yes I'm aware as an enthusiast you can learn how to brace yourself for most of it, but GP isn't going to learn to do that) it would likely have a significantly longer line.

Having your supporting coasters running better and being more desirable means that your star attractions will get to be more enjoyable too.

At some point some of these ageing coasters will need retracked. Even things like Magnum, or Raptor. The steel only lasts so long. Look at Nemesis at Alton Towers or Hulk at IOA as an example of what Raptor could get.

Some of the rides would REALLY do well with updated trains. Blue Streak would be amazing with Millennium Flyer trains. Magnum could do with some more modern trains as well, although I'm less sure of what I'd pick for it. An updated Magnum could make the ride much more popular and chew through capacity.

Mine ride... is the one coaster in the park I wouldn't entirely mind going. Maybe even a relocation to another park instead of scrap. But if it goes, it needs to be replaced with a new family coaster. Honestly, just about every manufacturer has a new awesome family coaster model the park could pick from. There's SO MUCH competition in that space right now, and that could actually be a draw for the type of families the park wants to attract. A really good, smooth, new family coaster is something the park doesn't really have right now.