Breakers Landmark Status..

Its been a while now and not too many people have commented on how Breakers lost its Landmark Status! Shame on You

This really does disturb me just because CP made the hotel more modern and added more structure to feed demand!

How do you all feel?

ALSO..Now that we've lost this Historical title what do you think the future holds for the Bon-Aire wing???hmmmmmm..Possibly say Bye Bye?

-------------
http://www.msu.edu/~armbrus9/cp.html
mf laps = 100! No More No Less!!
Wheres the Electricity!*** This post was edited by Jeffrey Spartan on 11/27/2001. ***

*** This post was edited by Jeffrey Spartan on 11/27/2001. ***

Didn't it lose Landmark status a while ago?  I seem to remember a thread about it a while back.

http://www.guidetothepoint.com/thepoint/cpplace/thread.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=6463

Maybe I'm mistaken though.  At any rate, it is sad that the status is lost because CP upgraded, but what can you do.  As far as the wing, I think it's hard to say.  I'm sure people who stay there love it for the historical significance, who cares if they have a plaque stating it's a landmark.  I think it will stay.

-----------------
Mr. Skyward is my hero.
Trying to be like RGR,
"Call me WinAmp, 'cause I whip the Llama's Ass."

I really must be losing my mind. I know this has been discussed here in the last few days.

Wait ... oh, that was a thread at CoasterBuzz.

Cedar Point's primary concern is profit, not preservation. If removing the Coliseum or Grand Pavilion would translate into more money, I think they'd do it in a second. They're in the business to make money. (But don't think for a second I wouldn't be furious if that ever happened!).

While I'm not an architect, I would think they could maintain those historical aspects and still bring the hotel to 2001 standards. The first time I saw the new addition, I thought it was a hospital. But now there are tons of rooms. Rooms = $$$. It comes down to the bottom line.

You can't really fault the park here. Then again, you can't really blame organizations like the Old House Guild for being upset, because they're in the business to save historical landmarks. Does the 'new' hotel architecture have historical significance? I don't think so. Does the hotel itself still have historical significance? You bet it does.

-------------
Virtual Midway
http://www.virtualmidway.com

*** This post was edited by Gemini on 11/27/2001. ***

---

Gemini said:
(snip)...While I'm not an architect, I would think they could maintain those historical aspects and still bring the hotel to 2001 standards. The first time I saw the new addition, I thought it was a hospital. But now there are tons of rooms. Rooms = $$$. It comes down to the bottom line....(snip)

---

I am an architect in training and I'll say this. Yes, the portions that were torn down could've been updated to modern codes and ADA requirements, but it would've cost 4 times or more as much to do. Since they were originally built, modern building codes have changed a lot...wider egress widths, required number of stairways increased, glazing area increaced, wider hallway width, wider door widths, etc. When you do any sort of renovation, law stipulates you must bring the entire structure up to modern codes and ADA standards. Basically, it would'be been a gut job...just leave the walls and roof, that's it; rebuild everyting else. Since they have to make everything bigger to fit new codes, they lose a few rooms. So 4 times as much cost plus less rooms which means less revenue, or tear down and rebuild....obvious business decision.

-------------
--Seth

*** This post was edited by Seth Oakley on 11/27/2001. ***

Seth,

You couldn't have put it any better.  Granted the look of the new wings isn't great from the park side but they do look decent from the beach side.

OK, who cares that Breakers lost historical status! I love breakers and stay there every Halloweekends (camping in summer) I CAN tell you that I dont stay at breakers because it had historical status, I stay there because it's a great hotel!!! I dont wanna sound mean, but it doesent make me angry one bit, I never once use to look at Breakers and say "WOW, look how historical that is!!!":)
-----------------
CEDAR POINT YES, SIX FLAGS NO! GOD BLESS AMERICA, THE RED, WHITE, AND BLUE! Vertigo Launches 71. WICKED TWISTER RIDER!!

I think the reason the Breakers lost it's status is not because they decided to tear down old wings and replace it with new wings, it's the way they replaced it.  I wish they would have taken the architecture more into account.  Breakers East is a perfect example of preserving the old architecture while blending new. When Breakers West was added, however, it seemed CP didn't have enough budget to unify it with the rest of the building.  Today, we have one building that looks like 3, creating discontinuity in the overall design/asthetics of the Hotel Breakers.  This is why I believe it lost the historical status.  (Can you tell I'm an architecture student)  :-)

Thought provoking question of the day ...

Can a person be a true Cedar Point enthusiast if he/she does not care for and respect the history of the park?

-------------
Virtual Midway
http://www.virtualmidway.com

I think so.  It's most certainly possible to enjoy everything the park currently offers without having a sense of what has come previously.  I think, however, that there are varying degrees of enthusiasm.

To turn your question around -- could a historian who was only interested in the past chronology of the park (but had no interest in today's park) be considered a Cedar Point enthusiast?

-----------------
Duane Cahill
Coasterbuzz Track Record - 59
CP Track Record - 13 (too tall for Jr. Gemini)

Very good point DBCahill.  Sometimes people think because they know everything they feel like they are the exception, and no one else can have an appreciation for the park because they have no idea what ride was in zone 4 area 2 right next to this other ride that was moved 2 years later that went to this park where it now has a happy and wonderful life back in the 60's.  I think some people need to get off their high horse and CHILL!

Speaking of needing to chill ...

Having an appreciation of the history doesn't mean the person has to know every detail (I'm not even sure where you get that). I'm not on any high horse. Please note that I didn't even answer the question - I just asked it thinking it would open up an interesting dialogue. Your attack is without merit.

-------------
Virtual Midway
http://www.virtualmidway.com

*** This post was edited by Gemini on 11/28/2001. ***

OK GUYS, I (until now) had no idea that breakers had historical status, otherwise I would have appreciated it! I love breakers and I appreciate everything about Cedar Point and it's Resorts!! Thank you
-----------------
CEDAR POINT YES, SIX FLAGS NO! GOD BLESS AMERICA, THE RED, WHITE, AND BLUE! Vertigo Launches 71. WICKED TWISTER RIDER!!

I'm with ya, Walt.  Figured I'd move the conversation along and even take an opposing view, albeit one that I'm not strongly married to -- devil's advocating maybe.  Not sure where the provocation came from...
-----------------
Duane Cahill
Coasterbuzz Track Record - 59
CP Track Record - 13 (too tall for Jr. Gemini)

Provocation is fun. Keeps things interesting. :)

I do want history to be preserved, but I certainly realize that there are practical aspects to it. Look at Idora Park or Chippewa Lake. It would have been swell to see those places fall into the right hands for preservation, but at what cost and how is it recovered?

My bigger worry at the park is that of preserving some of the natural features, namely those huge trees on the Oceana midway. If those ever went away, I think I'd have to stop Dick Kinzel on the midway and tell him how I feel about that. Politely, of course!

-----------------
Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

I'll get over it before I finish this post.

-------------
Later Wally

I can understand the business decision not to upgrade the original wings.  I lived in the "white dorms" for 2 summers of my employment, and those rooms had changed very little since 1905.  ( I did like the little handsink in the corner of the room though!)

I consider myself a historian/enthusiast, so it saddened me to lose the landmark status.  I doubt a vast majority of the guests care about it. 

I think the tower section is a terrible eyesore.  (CPcyclone said it much better).   I wish they would have built Breakers West to match Breakers East.  Please correct my math if its wrong, but I believe the east wing contains 212 rooms, the tower 149, and the bon aire section 144.  Tower + Bon Aire = 293 rooms.  If Breakers west had been built to match Breakers East, and both wings had 5 floors instead of 4, the angles of the wings extended a little bit ...  Each side would match and the hotel would have the same number of rooms as it has now, with no Tower.  Where to put TGIF, the pool and the arcade though?  I'll let CPcylone figure that out. :)

Sorry Gemini the comment was not referred to you but to people in general.  I should have made that more clear.  So do not take offense just making a comment and stating my opinion.  Again sorry I was not trying to make an attack on a single person.

*** This post was edited by sivaII on 11/29/2001. ***

The Tower was built, as opposed to a mirror image of Breakers East, for several reasons.  First, as people have alluded to earlier, Bon Aire will not likely be around forever.  That left the challenge of building an addition without interfering too much with the lake views of the Bon Aire section.

Second, a tower allowed the ability to put 18 Horizon rooms (high dollar) into circulation.  One of them, the Presidential Suite, goes for $1000 per night!  If you have never been on the top floor you have missed some incredible views.  There is even a concierge lounge up there that serves breakfast to those staying on the top floor only.

Third, there was no way to duplicate the Breakers East wing without tearing down Bon Aire and they weren't prepared to do that.  Although an older section of the hotel, Bon Aire is in pretty good shape with the rooms having been redone in the last 5 or 6 years.  You also have to have some lower cost rooms on property because you won't sell out 700 odd +$200 per night rooms on a nightly basis, especially during the shoulder seasons.

I think losing the historical designation will end up being positive b/c they can finally air condition the lobby!

While I for one would like to see CP show more appreciation to it's roots, ( Town Hall is just screaming for a better historical section), I am unaffected by  Hotel Breakers "losing" the Historical Designation.

If memory serves me correctly, CP was NOT thrilled when the designation was first slapped on the Hotel back around 1985. The action was taken by a group of locals(?). Part of the reason CP was not thrilled is because of the "limitations" placed on any type of renovations.

The larger question asked by Gemini is an even better topic and we could debate it all off season....

I feel one does not need to be an expert on CP's past to be an enthusist today. However, one MUST at least understand just like Rome, CP was not built in a day:)

Personnaly, I enjoy walking the Midway and watching the way CP has changed over the decades. If I can figure out how to upload some old family movies, someday I'll share CP circa, 1962. It has been fun sharing these with my munchkins. Just becasue someone does not know CP's History doesn't mean they cannot enjoy CP today.

The question makes me think of another type issue...If a guest visits CP but doesn't ride the Coasters can he/she be a fan of the park?

My impression is that the park was founded on the basis of letting people enjoy themselves and bask in the leisure of having no worries but let themselves have fun. 

It makes no sense to tell people they should be respectful of a place's roots or the new developments that have been made.  It's all discressionary.  Not one thing will please everyone so a lot of different things will help give each person something to enjoy.

It does no good to preach what someone should like in order to fully appreciate the monumental presence of that park.  Having disputes and quarrels about and at certain landmarks within the park weakens the point of view that some others may have, thus cause less business.  The last thing a person in search of diversion needs is a political debate about how something is losing its history.

I personally think that the Town Hall is boring.  I can't justify the need to peruse the dusty cases of old stuff just so I can see the history of the place that it is now.  It's not part my history per se, so I honestly don't care.  I have much better things to do like scream my head off on the newest thrill machine.  But others would nix the new attractions and settle for something more calming. 

This dead horse is now a very stinky paste in the grass, it's been beaten so much.

-----------------
I've ridden the big ones, but Iron Dragon is still my baby.
"Boo!" "Kitty!"