Arms down??

Look at the folder that they sell with the MF on-ride photos. There are a couple of pictures of trains at different locations on the track. And every single person in those pictures is holding on with both hands and not one single person has their hands up. Have you ever seen a MF train running without at least one person with their hands up?

The park wants to do everything they can to limit possible liability. So they need to say the right things and do they right things every chance they get. Doesn't mean that if something bad happens they cannot still be found liable but they want to do whatever they can going into the day limiting their liability as much as possible.

Those were taken during a special commercial shoot. Some of the participants in that commercial shoot post here.

If you dislocate your shoulder on TTD because you have your arms up, technically the park isn't liable. Of course, if you sued the park would just settle out of court to avoid the PR nightmare. Now, if you're hurt because of adverse conditions (like the cable snapping) then the park is liable no matter what you're doing.

I remember hearing from another employee that someone threatened to sue the park because they got wet on Snake River. In case anyone ever wonders why there are signs that say "You will get wet on this ride" you now know why.

It's pretty amazing the park has such little accidents with everything that could go wrong.

BGDrew said:
Now, if you're hurt because of adverse conditions (like the cable snapping) then the park is liable no matter what you're doing.

The point that I was trying to make is that the only people who got hurt when the cable snapped had their hands up. If they would have had their hands down then the metal shards would have gone over the train and not into their arms. Now CP may have still been liable, but I am just saying that in that particular situation if everyone had their arms down injuries (they were not major, but still) would have been avoided.

So how does keeping the arms down save the girl who got her ear pierced in that situation? Yes, a piece of the metal was lodged in her ear.

Now, if you're hurt because of adverse conditions (like the cable snapping) then the park is liable no matter what you're doing.

I'll take my chances with a cable snap. How many times has the cable snapped with people on the ride?

^ I believe only once.

Without people, a good couple times.....WITH people, I think 2 or 3 times. It's not like it's necessarily dangerous. All that happens is a jerk and then the train stops accelerating...eventually stopping or gliding then rolling back. If the cable frays/snaps at a point where it's in the trough, it poses no real threat to the riders. The incident in 04 was the result of the cable fraying at the feeder wheels (where the cables go into the hydraulic room), the only spot where the cables are in the complete open.

Of course, a cable snap is open to all kinds of possibilities.

That's interesting to know. I had no idea it's broken that much. Why is it that Dragster's cable breaks "frequently" when Sky Ride's never breaks? Why wouldn't they replace the cable before it breaks?

Ummm...that should be a no brainer :). I shouldn't even have to say why Dragsters cable is more prone to breaking as opposed to Sky Rides.

And actually, the cable is now replaced before it breaks fyi. I'm not sure of the exact number of breaks, but I think it's around 4 or 5 times.

*** Edited 7/20/2007 12:08:21 AM UTC by TTD 120mph***

Well, I know why they replace Sky Ride's before it breaks. If they didn't, lots of people die. :)

But, you'd think they'd want to replace ANY cable before it breaks to insure against any potential injuries.

Sky Ride is essentially under static load, at least when compared to TTD. With Dragster, you have 'no load'-'high load'-'no load', repeat, which is just about the worst environment for anything metallic. And while Sky Ride does undergo some of the similar cyclic loading, its nowhere near the level of Dragster's. Of course, this is simply an assumption on my part, so take it as such.

Going further, they don't need to replace Dragster's before it breaks, because its not a catastrophic failure when it does. Sky Ride, on the other hand, well... yeah. :)

Good engineering analysis dj.

the cyclic loading on Dragster is immense.. going from no load to an IMMENSE load every minute or so. On Dragster, the cable will fail due to fatigue loading, so they probably have a ballpark life expectancy for each cable that they use, and replace it well before it gets to that time. On the sky ride, the cable is pretty much under steady loading, with some variations. This allows for a much longer life expectancy. However the cable failure on sky ride would be catastrophic, so I'm sure CP replaces that cable a long time before it is expected to fail.

<disregard>They've only replaced it twice in its lifetime. Once last year, before the 06 season, and once back in the mid-early 80's if I remember correctly.</disregard>

I'll see if I can find the blog link.

EDIT for linking:
Blog Link.

The Sky Ride cable is good for 8 years. So I guess its been replaced more than just twice, but still nowhere near as often as the MF and TTD cables.

*** Edited 7/20/2007 2:55:20 PM UTC by JuggaLotus***

Just because a cable break on TTD isn't necessarily catastrophic, we all know what cable snaps can do (see Kentucky Kingdom). That's why I was a little surprised CP waits until the cable breaks to replace it. Even though it most likely won't injure someone, there IS a slight chance that it will. So, why not just play it safe and replace it first? We're always told safety is their number one concern.

Probably because there are far too few unknowns with TTD's cable, Tim. You could play the super-safe and incredibly expensive (in terms of material, labor AND downtime) angle, and replace it after X number of cycles, where X is the minimum observed failure rate, etc. And even if you did that, the thing could still snap after half that time. The system is simply far too dynamic, compared to SR, to make accurate predictions.

And there's also a slight chance that the entire TTD station could collapse. And while I understand the differences, should they prepare for that as well, by replacing the station every season?

The cable of a ride is a "wearable" item, just like a clutch, brakes or tires on a car. You KNOW they are going to wear out and need replaced. There's no question about that. So, comparing that to the station collapsing is just idiotic and you know that. Could the station collapse? Yes. Is it EXPECTED to collapse? NO. That's the simple fact of the matter.

There has to be some warning as to when a cable on TTD is going to snap. They inspect the thing daily - if not more than once daily. So, I'm sure they have a pretty good idea of when it is going to snap. That's all I was saying really. I'm not saying the park is negligent by not replacing it. I merely said I was surprised they would wait for it to snap before actually replacing it.

They replace wheels on trains before they fail. They inspect them, know when they need replacing, and replace them probably well before they're going to fail. They replace bolts before they fail. Again, they inspect them, look for fatigue, and replace them before a failure. All I'm saying is why take the risk of damage to the ride, injury to riders or some other "accident" by not replacing something before it fails.

I'm implying (apparently via idiotic means) that there's no way to visually identify when the cable is about to snap, due to the nature of the ride.

I think part of it too was that Intamin over-estimated the lifetime of the cables. So after a few snaps, CP determined what the signs of wear are before a snap, and about how many cycles it takes to get there. Now they've got a better idea, and know when to be replacing the cable before it snaps.

I would think that the best you could do is give something of a range of when a cable will break. Just like having your brakes or tires inspected and they will likely tell you that you have a range of miles left before you need to replace them. And that will just be an estimate. They may last longer or may not last as long. I would think the cable is the same way. And CP presumably does some type of cost/benefit analysis in determining when to replace a cable (considering costs of replacment and down time and risk of injury to customers or damage to ride if cable snaps rather than being replaced during non-operating hours).