An Oil Waster?

??? The pumps don't have to do any reversing; that's all handled by the valving...

My impression, given that they have, from what I have gathered, multiple liquid-based cooling systems, plus several tons of air conditioning for radiant cooling, is that of all the problems the system has, heat is probably the one they mostly got solved early on.

If the hoses are leaking at the motor inlets or outlets, maybe the solution is to change to a different type of *plumbing*. Just from my experience with the low pressure hydraulic system in an automotive power steering system, I don't have much use for crimped couplings...!

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Dave I worded myself wrong. The gear pumps have a harder time
when it comes to stopping quickly, where piston pumps dont. Its interesting you remark about crimp fittings. Thats what I work with
5 days a week. The Fitting isnt always at fault. The inner tube design/or wire decks, type of decks spiral, or braid. Finnaly the big one is who is crimpping the fittings. But i will say I have burst samples where at 26,000 PSI the fitting has given out and not the hose.

The pumps are on continuously. The oil is dumped back to the reservior when not filling the accumulators.

To the best of my knowledge, TTD uses high performance vane pumps.

Now the motors are subjected to acceleration, quick stopping, reversing, cavitation and partical contamination. To the best of my knowledge, the motors are actually blocks that contain 3 vane motors each. Each one is a high speed low torque motor that turns at speeds of over 2,000 RPM.

The problems with the hoses aren't so much the burst ratings as the longevity issues. The pressure hoses are supjected to flexing and internal abrasion. They have had hoses burst, but they are pretty good at replacing them now when they need it. Also they had a bad crimp on another occasion which failed.

26KPSI is nearly 6 times the pressure used on TTD. That would be a grade B safety factor if I remember correctly. Sounds about right as far as what TTD would use.

ForgottenEE.
It seems that you know about the park and its operations so I guess I could ask you this question.
You mentioned that in order for the cable and catch car troubles to be fixed the whole launch would have to be re-engineered.Now not going into the Kingda Ka issues in past ,I was wondering that if it proves to work on that ride do you think that Cedar Point might consider reworking Dragster or just leave it as is?
I am sure Intamin probably learned a few things from TTD and made a few"tweaks" in the launch systems and hopefully have it a bit more reliable.
Now if it proves to be reliable do you think management would replace it or would it be too cost prohibitive and leave it as is?I am sure they want to improve those downtime percentages abit.
Thanks in advance!!!!!!!!!!

Intamin did the same exact thing when they were building Storm Runner. That is(and I may have it a bit wrong so somebody can correct me) Intamin brought Hershey Park officials to Cedar Point to show them how a hydraulic launch system works. Allowing them to explain how different Storm Runner's sytem would be from Dragster's.

So maybe the system they're using for KK is more similar to Storm Runners than Dragsters. Seeing that Storm Runners is the more modified model(including Rita - Queen of Speed's, Kanonen's and Kingda Ka's).

And I think Intamin fixed some of Dragster's systems during their visit. *** Edited 4/13/2005 7:56:52 PM UTC by TTD 120mph***

Rita, Strom Runner, and Xcelerator have short launch lengths. Even Kingda Ka is about 90' shorter than TTD's.

TTD's hydraulic system was actually an improvement over Xcelerator. Unexpected cavitation, excessive cable abrasion, and catch car magnet failures have caused most of the non control system related downtime. There have been many changes to the system that have improved running. It boils down to is reducing the downtime you can change but there will still be problems with things that are too costly to improve.

In any event Kingda Ka will have a lot of downtime, but not as much as TTD had. Storm Runner has a couple improvements that can't be used on TTD or Kingda Ka because of high speeds, but overall it's low speed greatly attributes to it's very good performance. If a few improvements are made, 15% or less downtime overall is achieveable. To be able to improve the cable and catch car operation would mean shortening the launch length significantly.

When the catch car reaches temperatures greater than 80C, the magnets begin lose their mangetic energy. Nyodynium Iron Boron Magnets do exactly that. This will take a longer distance to stop the catch car. After it stops into the permanent brakes, it's harder to reverse and heats the magnets up more. At some point the catch car will set of one of the sensors that will cause an alarm. A couple times the catch car failed to stop. In July of 2003, the catch car hit the limit bumper so hard it came off in pieces. The water catch car cooling system doesn't seem like a bad idea now does it? The ride still has problems with overheating the catch car on the hottest of days requiring the removal of the catch car, but nothing like July 2003.

Each problem is evaluated and if a viable solution is possible, it is done.

Kingda Ka's launch track is shorter???? I could of swore I heard tons of people saying it was longer.

I didn't know that happened to the catch car(I guess I wouldn't anyway:P). When did that happen exactly?
And are the Nyodynium Iron Boron Magnets different from the ones used to slow Dragster's trains?

Thanks for the info too!
We learn something new everyday.:)

By launch, I mean the acceleration portion. I cannot confirm if the entire launch is longer or shorter in any case.

When did the catch car get destroyed? I don't remember exactly, I just remember it happed twice in July 2003, the first time was bad, the second time wasn't nearly as bad. The magnets overheat past 80C and they will begin to lose their magnetic properties. At first it will come back when cooled off. Do it too many times or get them hot enough and they will lose it permanently.

http://www.pointbuzz.com/cpplace.aspx?mode=thread&TopicID=12950

What where they doing? Taking the catch car off, replacing the bad magnets (checking them with a gauss meter), putting the catch car back on in the morning.
Why? Enough of the catch car magnets were demagnetizing per day to justify all that work to keep the ride running.
Solution: Ghetto water cooling system added. Problems were significantly reduced.

The same magnets are used for braking as used for the catch car. The trains magnets at the hottest are 40C which is warm to the touch. That is far from the 80C required to demagnetize. The catch car gets so hot because it's in direct sunlight, lots of heat from friction and heat from braking. The train magnets are under the train, in shade, connected to a large heatsink (car body), get long durations between launches, and get better cooling from the wind of 120 MPH.

In the end, the catch car overheats and the trains aren't even close to it.

...And here I thought that in a magnetic braking system most of the heat was generated in the brake fins, not in the magnets.

Then too, with no wheels on the catch-car, I imagine there is quite a bit of friction to deal with as well. There's a good size heat sink there, but it really has no way to dissipate heat...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Sure it does! They have a sophisticated water cooling system (read: garden hose) cooling the launch track!

Don't you pay attention to rides anymore, Rideman? ;)

Hey, now...

Last year they prettied up the water system and installed fittings right into the channel, getting rid of the dangling garden hoses...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RideMan said:Then too, with no wheels on the catch-car

Speaking of that, what do they run on(if anything)?

The catch car just runs along a nylon (I believe) trough. When they were having the heat issues in '03, the thing actually melted or somehow got damaged and they had to replace it.